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Everyone knows the phish tickets scenario has been overtaken by d-bag scalpers who try to profit from our fun. But this is just getting stupid. THere are ads on ebay for 1 ticket from 330-977 dollars and i just think that is a load of shit if i've ever seen one. How can someone sell a 60 (70 for NYE) piece of paper for close to 1000 dollars, not right and not fair to the phans.
Now, being the progressive person i am i started thinking of ideas to try to stop this shit. A thought of Phish's own ticketing system came to mind, to ensure that the people who want the tickets get them. Any thoughts?
Now, being the progressive person i am i started thinking of ideas to try to stop this shit. A thought of Phish's own ticketing system came to mind, to ensure that the people who want the tickets get them. Any thoughts?
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No. Their own system isn't going to prevent scalpers. By your logic, people who want tickets should get them. Well, scalpers want tickets. And if they want tickets (remember, that's how those people are employed), they'll get them. If Ticketmaster can't prevent misuse of their system, and they have far superior technological capabilities than Phish, Inc., who's to say that the new system would be any more successful?So then the discussion typically becomes that you want to make sure "real fans" get them then, right? So each fan would have to "prove" they deserve tickets? This means casual and new fans couldn't get tickets. Or a loyalty system where fans who have seen more shows get priority? That just screams unfair if I've ever heard it.
What is needed is a new resale system. Something that caps the resale price to remove the incentive to derive profit from reselling tickets. It would need to be a foolproof system requiring IDs, credit cards, tickets, etc. The Telluride tickets tried to employ this idea. It's the best anyone's created so far, but it still wasn't foolproof.
And while I don't condone or accept scalping Phish tickets in the least, keep in mind that the only tickets Phish has ever spoken out against are lottery tickets. They've never said anything official about TM resales. They've only prohibited lottery resales at higher than face value.
The solution to the problem is not in the ticketing system, it's in the resale system. If a scalper knows he can't flip the tickets for profit and can only resell them for what he paid or less, there's no reason to buy them in the first place.
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true that yoursong. So a capped resale value would allow anyone who wants to attend the show to buy tix for a cheaper amount of money. I like that idea a lot, now if only there was a way....
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There is a way. We explored it in another thread a while back. I'll see if I can dig it up. Part of the resale solution could be the use of a new overall system. But I just wanted to point out the real problem above. There are also lots of contract type issues with Ticketmaster, Livenation, venues, etc. And to create a new, completely secure system that can handle the demands the Phish ticket rush would put on it wouldn't exactly be the easiest or cheapest thing ever.I started working on the resale site solution with some friends in our spare time just for shits and giggles to try to see what it would require. We haven't gotten very far, but we also haven't tried very hard. And we're doing it more out of curiosity than anything. I don't recommend getting your hopes up for the launch of a live system anytime soon, most unfortunately.
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bump
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I think that if it really mattered to Phish something would have changed a long time ago. I could also be completely wrong it's been known to happen.I am not saying there is anything wrong with them caring or not caring either way that's up to them.
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No, I don't @ctphishin. A similar discussion was had on this topic in another thread as @yoursongtoo mentioned. [I think it had something to do with fans putting requests in to Phish-Tickets-by-Mail (PTBM) for shows they did not plan to attend, to use as trade bait for a show they do wish to attend, something I really strongly disagree with].If one continues to pay ridiculous amount of money on the secondary market, the prices will stay ridiculous. Here's a novel idea, if you can't get a face value ticket, don't go. If we the fans can self police this issue to a certain point, tickets will be REASONABLE on the secondary market, and I think that's the best you can hope for .... you're never going to get rid of the secondary market (but if enough scalpers eat tickets tour after tour, they will eventually lose interest) and for 'special shows', yes, those will fetch more money and as long as people are paying that kind of quid, resellers will ask it.
Do I think Phish should start their own ticket company, Hell no. There have been lots of tickets available at lots this year, they are playing smaller venues than the past and often still have extra tickets to be found [In my recollection that was unheard of in 99-00, and that was at venues that had double the capacity]. Give the PTBM lottery a try and if no luck then try TM, and still no luck, stay home unless it's something you HAVE to be at. And if you HAVE to be there, DON'T CRY about the resale price of tickets. [sorry, don't mean it to sound that harsh, but that's how I feel]
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@Thunder said: Here's a novel idea, if you can't get a face value ticket, don't go... Give the PTBM lottery a try and if no luck then try TM, and still no luck, stay home unless it's something you HAVE to be at. And if you HAVE to be there, DON'T CRY about the resale price of tickets. [sorry, don't mean it to sound that harsh, but that's how I feel]YOURSONGTOO and THUNDER nailed it.
I'll try to keep it short (I exausted my comment the last time this came up) but that was basically it. Just one more thought to chew on:
On one side of the argument, people always mention that "this is BS" and "real fans" should get those tickets, not scalpers. Well, who pays $1,000 for a Phish ticket at the end of the day? A casual fan? A first timer? Nope...it's the hardcore "serious" fans who shell out those bucks which keep the negative feedback machine spinning. There's a difference between a "true" fan and a selfish fan.
Like THUNDER said. If you don't get a ticket, you didn't get one. Tough luck you tried and got shut out. Maybe you may have to "take one for the team" and accept the fact that you got shut out. I won't really agree with the "don't come" part. Hell, if you get shut down and score an extra, a reasonable extra in the lot, good job. Congratz. It seems nowadays 95% of scalping is done online anyways, so most the damage is already done by the day of the show. But if you show up with a fist full of $100s to get in at all costs...boom you're part of the problem.
But this has all been beat to death before.
Happy Holidays everyone.
P.S. I bet this dude never paid $1,000 for a ticket!
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I've said it before and will say it again. If people don't buy tickets from the scalpers, they won't buy extra tickets. The problem is, people will pay the prices. Some people payed the scalpers prices in Atlantic City this year and are paying the prices for NYC on New Years Eve too. They could solve the problem a couple of ways. Limit ticket sales to 2 tickets per person. I know that's a bit much, but look how many people want tickets. I don't think they'd have a problem selling out at all this way. Limit early pre-sale tickets too. Is this the problem? Well it can be if there's not as many tickets left going on sale to the public. A lot of people then don't get tickets. I notice though that the tickets people are usually reselling are not those pre-sale tickets but the ones purchased from Ticket Master. How are the scalpers getting so many tickets is my question. I have never bought any pre-sale tickets through Phish (via internet) and have always bought my tickets through Ticket Baster cause I want to have a chance of getting real good tickets. You don't know where your seats will be when you get them through Phish. I've heard of people getting real good tickets before and real lousy tickets also. I know you take that chance also when you get them through Ticket Master, but I want to be the one doing that, not Phish. When people stop buying tickets and paying the prices from the scalpers is when it's gonna stop and not before. There will always be a market out there for scalper tickets. That's why they do it. ( I for one have bought tickets through a Ticket Broker-Scalper before and hope I don't have to do it again. I just wanted tickets to the Deer Creek shows last year, did not want to be on the lawn in case of bad weather and payed way to much for my tickets. I wasn't notified when tickets went on sale. That won't be a problem for me anymore though.)......
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Guess what you want scalping to stop, Stop buying from scalpers. I love phish but there is no way I would pay over face value. Its simple supply and demand. If you stop buying from scalpers, scalpers will stop buying up the tickets. And also one of the main reasons why Phish broke up in the first place is because their office was getting huge and they needed to support a bunch of peeps on their payroll. So phish having their own ticketing system would put them back into a position they no longer want to be in.
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Here's my solution. See a scalper. Brand em. Right on the forehead.
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@MJZ1974 said: @Thunder said:I agree but I have not got tix all year... And missed a bunch of shows because I don't want to support scalpers. It sucks, I live so far from most shows I either don't wanna go for only 1 show or just can't get any and I really need 2 for me and my wife. So no AC no New years, I guess I can only go to shows that don't sell out until Phish revamps how we can get tix. Very frustrating.Here's a novel idea, if you can't get a face value ticket, don't go... Give the PTBM lottery a try and if no luck then try TM, and still no luck, stay home unless it's something you HAVE to be at. And if you HAVE to be there, DON'T CRY about the resale price of tickets. [sorry, don't mean it to sound that harsh, but that's how I feel]YOURSONGTOO and THUNDER nailed it.
I'll try to keep it short (I exausted my comment the last time this came up) but that was basically it. Just one more thought to chew on:
On one side of the argument, people always mention that "this is BS" and "real fans" should get those tickets, not scalpers. Well, who pays $1,000 for a Phish ticket at the end of the day? A casual fan? A first timer? Nope...it's the hardcore "serious" fans who shell out those bucks which keep the negative feedback machine spinning. There's a difference between a "true" fan and a selfish fan.
Like THUNDER said. If you don't get a ticket, you didn't get one. Tough luck you tried and got shut out. Maybe you may have to "take one for the team" and accept the fact that you got shut out. I won't really agree with the "don't come" part. Hell, if you get shut down and score an extra, a reasonable extra in the lot, good job. Congratz. It seems nowadays 95% of scalping is done online anyways, so most the damage is already done by the day of the show. But if you show up with a fist full of $100s to get in at all costs...boom you're part of the problem.
But this has all been beat to death before.
Happy Holidays everyone.
P.S. I bet this dude never paid $1,000 for a ticket!
http://wfnx.com/blogs/sandbox/phish%20head.jpg
Why not mail order with 2 tix max, self addressed envelope, money orders, copy of ID or a new Phan ID that could be tracked? I would finally get to do parts of tours without stressing and then just not going.
I guess I'm more grateful for the shows I do get into and love those taper dudes the most. I would pay to support them getting in. Harpuafsb rules!
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Don't we all wish that getting tickets were that easy. I don't like the fact I get super early (3,4 or 5 in the morning) just to get tickets. In the end, it's worth it when you see where you end up..
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i was just looking on ticketmaster for tickets for NYE and was about to start a thread about terrible ticket prices but i found this one. It really scares me when i see that the lowest price for a phish ticket on NYE is more then 200 bucks.
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one thing that i do to up my odds for tough shows is form a "ticket alliance" with other friends. my brother and i double teamed the greek and telluride this summer. i was able to pull down his first night greek tix, while he was able to pull down 2nd. by the time we jumped through the online hoops, 3rd night had sold out. then my brother, through some miracle of god, was able to pull down my telluride tix. then the rest of the shows this summer were cake. of course, you can mail order for some tough ticket shows and hope you can trade for the tix you need. that works about 99% of the time.now, as for fall, sometimes it is tough to get into these smaller venues, but i heard there were tix floating around for most shows, outside of a.c. and charleston.
also, remember that the toughest tix are not always the best shows. i remember going to the uic in '98, which was a damn good run. i had tix, but if you were looking, you were shit out of luck! then in van andel a couple of days later, tix were certainly out there, and my friends, that 2nd set was a nasty beast of a show! the uic was good, but van andel was freaking amazing. also, see the fox in st. louis in '09. tix on ebay were running for well over $300. i think they may have been closer to $500. that show sucked. possibly the worst of the year. i pondered dropping the loot, but eventually said fuck it and went to burgettstown instead....great move!examples are a plenty....don't be afraid to hit a "low profile" show.... you never know, they could play "dark side!"
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Here's the other thread I was talking about. Haha, forgot I started it. Just some ideas we all had bouncing around.http://forum.phish.net/?thread=1284763227
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