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Hey guys, Got some dry powder I can leverage in the interest of playing Phish ticket robin-hood..
On Friday I will attempt to pull some tickets from TM for the west coast shows, and then if successful I will sell them for face to people on Phish.net.
(preferentially to people who have been on here a while, and not people signing up after onsale to get tickets)
Anyone with me? If we can get even 10 tickets like this it could save our community like a thousand bucks.
Also, if this is not kosher let me know - definitely open to arguments that I will be in competition with you in the pool and might indirectly shut you out, as I have no intention of actually going to the WC shows. What do you think?
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If you have any success I would love to take any extras off your hands dovoian!! PM me please! Got totally shut out on PTBM!
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Please, PM me if you get anything! I'll be trying to get 2 of every BGCC show. I like this idea... I'd love it if you let me in on some of the action 
Good luck.
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That's a tough call - on one hand it's a chance for .NET folks to increase their odds, but then again you're going to increase the pool of competitors. If you score tickets, how will you decide who gets them @ face?
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Definitely, but no guarantees as I have absolutely NO LUCK with TM, lol. I'll post up what I get on Friday night if I get anything. So I should focus on BGCC? I like that its all GA.
Please do not PM me yet!
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@courtjester said: That's a tough call - on one hand it's a chance for .NET folks to increase their odds, but then again you're going to increase the pool of competitors. If you score tickets, how will you decide who gets them @ face?Exactly, this is a moral grey area.. very interested in what everyone else thinks about this kind of action, as I am not sure myself
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You should do a lottery. Everyone PMs you their credit card info and ticket requests. Then fill orders until your supply of tickets runs out. Then send either congratulations or regret emails.
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hahahahaahha I AM GOD
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See I just don't know about this - seems like it would be really cool to have some members organized to try and beat out TM and scalpers to aid the community... its so frustrating and horrible when people that love Phish get friggin' shut out of the concerts while scalpers make thousands of dollars off those who happen to be well off financially.But maybe trying to help this way just makes it worse, you know? I wonder if this has ever happened from a Phish.net perspective..
Any history with a collective buying agreement like this/how it works/your stance @johnnyd @tmwsiy @sethadam1 @lemuria?
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I don't know of anything beyond informal groups of friends trying to hook each other up.It's definitely a grey area, and a numbers game that we do not have complete information to play on.
If someone who is definitely not going to the show puts in for tickets (lets use BGCC as a specific example) and gets them, did they take them out of the hands of a scalper, or out of the hands of a West Coast fan (maybe not a dotnetter, but a "real" fan nonetheless) who can't get to any other shows? That kinda sucks ass for them.
I think when push comes to shove you can make the argument that the more fans that put in for tix to be circulated for face, the fewer scalpers will get. And of course this is dependant on 100% good faith of the person putting in, and their means of redistribution. But I also think the increment of change would be pretty marginal, statistically.
Personally, I don't do this unless a friend specifically asks me to help them out with a certain show. The inefficiency of having the tickets pass around again bothers me.
There's no good solution for when demand truly outweighs supply. Sometimes you're not gonna get to the show. It happens. Its happened to me plenty of times. Adding the dynamic of scalpers into the equation complicates the analysis, what with the artificial demand and inflation that creates. Its all very interesting to analyze from a game theory perspective. But regardless, it remains a personal choice based on your motivations and values.
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well said johnnyd
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there are many reasons for this problem, and i don't really think it's supply and demand...although it is clear that there is plenty of western demand, and little supply (please note for all the naysayers)...what's wrong is the orgs (phish, musictoday, RLM, congress, justice department, TM's monopoly, "brokers" vermin, etc.) that are not addressing the ticket bots and multiple orderers -- if everyone had to front cash, 90% of the problem goes away...
sigh...
/this is not an invitation to threadjack off to capitalism-land
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If multiple requests were not submitted by fans the Scalpers would be the ONLY ones submitting multiple orders. The result of this would be over 90% of PTBM going to Scalpers. It's already at like 40% so I'm not sure why any fan would NOT submit as many orders possible.
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@julesmac said: -- if everyone had to front cash, 90% of the problem goes away...Fully agreed that this would help significantly.
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Same things was discussed for NYE and I never saw any Robin Hood threads offering all these FV tickets. They were very rare, if any. I assume most took the tickets and flipped them or never got them to begin with. In theory, its an OK idea, however, in reality, its alot more complicated. My theory is everyone should take care of yourself first and if you can help others out, then definitely do so.
Playing Robin Hood and not being on your "list" takes away from that person's chances who are also tryign to get them.
It is all a game. Sometimes I win, most times I lose, but its a game I choose to play.
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@johnnyd said: @julesmac said:-- if everyone had to front cash, 90% of the problem goes away...Fully agreed that this would help significantly.
VERY TRUE!
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We should create a scam to punish scalpers... for example, create two lottery's- one real, one phony. Let the scalpers buy up the phony tickets, leaving all the real tickets for the folks who just want to groove!
That is probably a terrible idea- but I just really really hate scalpers, you guys.
That is probably a terrible idea- but I just really really hate scalpers, you guys.
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Let me know how this turns out.
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@Pooty said: If multiple requests were not submitted by fans the Scalpers would be the ONLY ones submitting multiple orders. The result of this would be over 90% of PTBM going to Scalpers. It's already at like 40% so I'm not sure why any fan would NOT submit as many orders possible.you may be assuming that the "brokers" vermin and craigslisters vermin and ebay-ers vermin aren't also multi-ordering -- do you know it's only "us" -- you don't think "they" don't know about multi-orders or have a bank of credit cards?
/just sayin'
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being that 4 of 20 shows in leg 1 are sold out, i would be concerned with buying tickets i personally don't need and would take a loss if the market doesn't support full reimbursement of the cash i laid out. Summer shows have not been to hard to score tickets to even if the event is sold out.... I know some venues are smaller and sell quicker, but there are always tickets at or near face.... even the NYE run, there were tix being hooked up at the last minute for face....
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@Pooty said: If multiple requests were not submitted by fans the Scalpers would be the ONLY ones submitting multiple orders. The result of this would be over 90% of PTBM going to Scalpers. It's already at like 40% so I'm not sure why any fan would NOT submit as many orders possible.Your last sentence...........not every fan has unlimited funds - what if ALL those orders hit - could be good or bad for your CC or Bank Account. I am sure most people submit what they can afford or will run into issues paying those people back that they "borrowed" money from.
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@okeepaphan said: We should create a scam to punish scalpers... for example, create two lottery's- one real, one phony. Let the scalpers buy up the phony tickets, leaving all the real tickets for the folks who just want to groove!My "brilliant" plan: Link
Obviously you cant stop people from choosing to pay over face. If that's what they want, they're gonna do it. But it would be quite fun to see scaplers/hoarders eat a massive amount of shit (and money) all at once.
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@johnnyd Glad to see my thoughts weren't that off the beaten path... I'm with you 100%
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I agree that for cash up front, the whole problem is mitigated - reminds me of banks minimizing their required reserve ratio by trading packaged credit default swaps and f-ing the people.I guess I'll decide if I'm doing this later in the week. I somehow doubt I'll be able to distribute them in a fair way if I did do this, and if i still think that at the time of the onsale, I won't even try for them.
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@cactoid said: I agree that for cash up front, the whole problem is mitigated - reminds me of banks minimizing their required reserve ratio by trading packaged credit default swaps and f-ing the people.You could make it a series of contests. Like who can guess your middle name first or something fun like that
I guess I'll decide if I'm doing this later in the week. I somehow doubt I'll be able to distribute them in a fair way if I did do this, and if i still think that at the time of the onsale, I won't even try for them.
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If anyone sell me two tickets for face and fees for each of Fri and Sat night of Billy Graham, I will donate 100 dollars to the mockingbird foundation
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'twould be the best laht party ever!And that is saying something because 4.3.1998 was really insane out there.
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Thanks for putting in your thoughts everyone; this has been interesting. Imagine if we purchased a ticket bot and secured thousands of tickets to each show, only to resell at face to only people with Phish tattoos? Then we'd know for sure.
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Sounds like a good idea to me. I'd could definitely take some extras off your hands if you score some.
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I love the idea. Just another good piece of combat fighting against the evil Scalpers. Our quest will continue, comrades!
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These tickets would NOT go to waste, so I say go for it... especially for the CA and CO shows. I'm personally looking for two 3-day passes to Dick's. One for me, one for my friend who'd be doing all the driving.
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This is a very interesting idea. I can see it from both sides. Sounds great on one hand as phans here would still get to go to the show without getting screwed by scalpers. On the other hand I could see local SF phans or others that aren't on /don't keep up with this forum getting screwed and us inadvertently pushing this crew into the hands of the scalpers. Part of me thinks "Take what you need and leave the rest." But nobody wants to leave anything for scalpers.I liked a comment I read earlier this year from this blog post. @Stoyankovich wrote:
"I went to a small "private" Dropkick Murphy's show a few years ago at Harper's Ferry in Boston. Given that it was a very small venue, the logistics involved with eliminating scalpers was quite easy. Although it does seem that the idea would very easily scale to much larger venues.
The process was quite simple. Online purchases were limited to (2) tickets per customer. This customer then had to provide and ID at the venue door that matched their credit card and order credentials. If such ID could not be provided then said "customer" was not admitted. This ensured that scalping could not take place - plain and simple. Don't ask me how they convinced the venue to operate in such a way, but it clearly worked flawlessly."
Don't know if Phish would ever go this route though. It would be tough I'm sure. I'll probably try to buy tickets on Friday but I don't think I have the bankroll to buy a bunch of tickets. One thing I would be interested though is trading Ticketmaster tix for PTBM since I collect those for shows I attend.
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ID + credit card is gaining popularity, even at bigger venues. Bands like Radiohead and a bunch of others have tried or are trying it out. I tried to get tickets for Springsteen @ Wrigley Field (tickets.com web site was a total horror show!) and some sections of the venue were credit-card-restricted on the tickets. Even so, I think it was possible to buy 4 tickets in 1 shot, meaning I could take any 3 anonymous suckers in with me.
Drop in the bucket as far as I'm concerned, but hey every little bit helps.
Drop in the bucket as far as I'm concerned, but hey every little bit helps.
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Phriends & i scored all our Dick's tickets thru lotto...have 6 xtra on field for ea nite for face...
PM me if u dont wanna deal w TM or TH...
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ID and credit card is a good idea too. Most of the EDM events I go to operate this way, and there is no aftermarket that I've ever seen for these things.The downside is that it can be a clusterf*** getting in. The better production groups have their act together and can process people pretty quickly, but a lot of places its a very time-consuming process. This could end up being a mess at an arena, especially if they only do it for a couple events a year.
The other question, is, I wonder how many big venues would want to buy into this. A lot of them are owned/operated/in collusion with TM/LN which gets a tasty piece of a lot of the aftermarket.
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There has to be some nerdy phish hackers that can figure out how to use the same software/bots that the scalpers use, and maybe even better. Then set up a network of fans helping out fans. Would be totally righteous man.
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someone please tell me how or who can get in touch with phish and explain how there are appox 300+ tickets on stub hub for Billy Graham!!! I know they do there best but this seems like a easy thing yo fix as all the tickets on there MUST be phish by mail!!!!!
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There have been 50+ BGCC tickets as well as LB tickets on Stub Hub since the day they announced the second leg. It has had me wondering as well.
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@happy_happy_allmyfriends said: someone please tell me how or who can get in touch with phish and explain how there are appox 300+ tickets on stub hub for Billy Graham!!! I know they do there best but this seems like a easy thing yo fix as all the tickets on there MUST be phish by mail!!!!!I seriously doubt ignorance is the reason the problem hasn't been properly addressed.
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Back in November there was an official Phish posting on Twitter related to scalping of PTBM tickets. I don't know if it's still legit but they asked phans to report such incidents to bettyfrost@phish.com
Phishy Tweet Nov 2011
Phishy Tweet Nov 2011
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Oh by the way, it's probably a total waste of time reporting PTBM tickets for sale on StubHub or other "legitimate" broker web sites - they are basically doing the money laundering while providing anonymity to their sellers - good luck getting a ticket seller's name or contact information from SH. However if you see something on Craigslist or eBay, report it to Phish.
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This is something I have been contemplating, and am actually in favor of legitimate secondary markets such as tickets now and stub hub to some extent because they might actually even out the demand for tickets between the time the show goes and sale and the show date. Having a secondary market makes it easier for someone to wait until they really know they are going to make the show to purchase tickets, reducing the tendency for people to buy all the tickets at once when the show goes on sale and try to sell them at the show. This also may reduce highly variable demand during the day of the concert as people can purchase their tickets before driving to the show. To me, the worst scenario seems to be when way too many people show up to the concert without tickets and demand spikes right before the concert. That usually results in either a lot of overpaid tickets or many people not getting in. Don't get me wrong, there are definitely pros and cons to the secondary market. One of the cons is added fees to tickets, however, there would not be any way to mass distribute tickets without some type of revenue. As far as the scalpers go, I'm not sure if there is any way to evade that problem.
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I'm not arguing for scalping but... With or without scalpers some shows are going to sell out and some people are going to not get tickets.Even if there were no scalpers, NYE at MSG is going to sell out.
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@courtjester said: Back in November there was an official Phish posting on Twitter related to scalping of PTBM tickets. I don't know if it's still legit but they asked phans to report such incidents to bettyfrost@phish.comAnyone remember this?
Phishy Tweet Nov 2011
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A wonderful way to have fun with scalpers.
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officially crossposting this thread with this onehttp://forum.phish.net/?thread=1335440317#start
I have found the answer
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Be sure to check out http://cashortrade.org/. They're working to combat scalping by making it easier for fans to connect with Face or Trade tix --awesome-- and it looks like they're doing some integration with phish.net now too!Something definitely needs to be done about scalpers, but its a complex issue. Thanks for continuing the discussion.
And thanks for posting that tweet, @courtjester -- we should all write that email address if/when any obvious scalping surfaces!
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