Back to Forum
Oldest First
Newest First
Heading into the final stretch of Phish 2012 Leg 1, and enjoying a Stone Ruination 10th Anniversary bomber, I figured this is a good time to connect with the community on Phish 2012.Overall, it's been a great year.
One clear strength of 3.0 has been the tightness, and somehow the band has taken that to an even greater level so far this year. The songs continue be very crisp versions - long or short - and I've noticed a welcome combination of a more relaxed Trey and a more active Fishman.
The willingness to jam has been more frequent collectively, and this is by far the most welcome adjustment compared to Phish 2009-2011 (IMO). Execellent jams and genuine conversations have emerged unexepectedly in the first set on many nights and also very late in second set during others. Quality jams occur with relative ease in the 9-12min range, and others in the Phish world have correctly pointed out that high quality jams emerge on the turn of a dime in the modern era.
The tightness has not been at the expense of the looseness, and the highlights are many. It's also been awesome to hear jams emerge with some old favorites (BOTT, Roses, BOAF, Fee). The band continues to build upon it's modern masterpiece- Light - and even Golden Age has had a few surprise moments.
My personal MVP this year has been Twist. Bader and Cincy are that good. Phenomenal.
There are 5 shows on tap for the remainder of Leg 1, but my expectations have actually leveled off, not heightened. I can't wait for Wantagh and particularly N1 and N2 of SPAC, but we'll see what develops.
For the (likely) debateable points...
I feel like the "Quest for 200 songs" has been completely over-blown, over-emphasized, and taken way out of context. I enjoy a varied setlist like the next phan, but who really cares about 200 songs if most of them (like 90%) are not even close to being jammed? If I want controlled, fixed versions of multiple Phish songs, I'll listen to the studio albums at home. I feel like Page made a random comment in the midst of a much longer Rolling Stone interview....and Rolling Stone being shit, took just one quote from Page...and the phans have run amok with the idea as if it's the sole purpose of the tour (which is crazy). What would you rather have: 150 songs during the course of Leg 1 but epic jams? Or a race to 200 songs with many of them being too rushed (see: Alpine ASHITOS)?
I don't understand the lack of theramin. The mule doesn't count.
Ironically with this whole 200-song craze, Round Room has been almost completely neglected. From a jamming perspective, I personally heart -7, Waves, 46, and WOTC, none of which have been fully expressed this tour (like...not even close).
Has there been a defining moment this tour? (Of course, this is NOT mandatory. I'll celebrate consistently good Phish all day.) But has there been an epic moment so far this year? Not yet. Reflecting on last year, I immediately jump to Bethel SoundCheck Waves, Ball Square, Gorge RnR, and Tahoe Light as all-time Phish.
The jams this year have been modest in length (I believe DWD is the max around 15min), and while the 12min range has been perfectly suitable for excellent type-2, the band has still been reluctant to exercise patience and fluid concentration beyond the 12-16min range. I have COMPLETE FAITH this band has the ability to sustain quality playing for a prolonged period, but will they actually do it?? Not sure. For all the would-be haters on this specific point, I'll immediately point to Albany 09. When they really want to...they can...and it's worth it.
I've sensed a nod to 1.0 on my fronts - teases, great humor, song selection - but for us fans of the 4-song set...still waiting.
Ending this rant on a positive note: Burgettstown Set 2 was magic. I'll listen to that shit for the rest of time.
Bring on Wantagh and SPAC.
Score: 17
@Lemmiwinks said: I feel like the "Quest for 200 songs" has been completely over-blown, over-emphasized, and taken way out of context.Agreed. That is soooo 2009.
Score: 0
I'm way more quality over quantity on the jams - if they keep up the 12-14 minute jams of brilliant quality (the Cincy Twist and damn near every Light spring to mind), I could give a shit if they don't go 25+ like the old days. 3.0 isn't 1.0, and it doesn't need to be with the shows we're getting this year. I agree with the OP that Burgettstown Set II is the best moment of the year so far, and topping it is not going to be easy. It was a pretty nice middle finger to anybody that thought Mike's Groove was dead forever.
Score: 2
They're trying to make it to 200 songs in 1 tour to break the Guinness World Record for "Most unique songs played in a tour by Phish in 2012" or something, it was in Rolling Stone
Score: 0
I think the MVP of 2012 so far has been Light. Yesterday's version along with AC sealed it. Everyone would rather see a 4-6 song set but thats not the kind of band Phish is right now. I would love to see them play Halfway to the Moon soon, it sounded great at the AC soundcheck. The're probably gonna hit 200 in the next 5 or 6 shows. If Page said they were gonna play 250 or 300 songs that would be a big deal. It will be interesting to see what Phish pulls out in Leg 2, that might be the time a couple new covers are debuted.
Score: 2
Great read and I totally agree about the 12-16m jam range. Still waiting for them to bust out a solid 20+m jam..where's that epic 22m DwD i've been waiting to hear similiar to last years?! Can't wait for SPAC
Score: 1
"everyone would rather see a 4-6 song set.." This statement could not be further from the truth
Score: 7
> I personally heart -7, Waves, 46, and WOTC, none of which have been fully expressed this tour (like...not even close).
Waves, DC night 1. Fully expressed and then some.
Waves, DC night 1. Fully expressed and then some.
Score: 1
The jamming is top notch. Really good. Although AV 2 set 2 lost a lotta momentum, is was glorious. Doing the four day run gave me so much patience with them and the set flow. I enjoyed these show so goddam much. I really wanna quit my job and keep going.
Score: 1
I got the ADHD straight up. I took a speed reading course but it's amazing how much you have to "train" to keep up speed; I agree with everythng for the most part, think its fascinating that your expectations have leveled off, in my humble opinion they are still peaking and the JB: SPAC shows are going to be memorable; pretty close tohomefield advantage and I expect a smooth straight GROOVE
c
Score: 0
@Lemmiwinks said: It's not that we don't want jamming, but just play there rarities more. I would like to hear a 15 minute Weigh. An Esther jam would be epic. Trey could do something really cool for Sugar Shack.
I feel like the "Quest for 200 songs" has been completely over-blown, over-emphasized, and taken way out of context. I enjoy a varied setlist like the next phan, but who really cares about 200 songs if most of them (like 90%) are not even close to being jammed?
Score: 0
I love this tour. I love them. They are best band, and clearly having a a blast on stage.
Score: 2
Lemmiwinks has inspired me. Heading into tonight's JB party....Personal MVP: Twist.
It has always been one of my least favorite. 1/1/11 got me to reconsider. Superball got me liking. AC and Cincy got me wanting. My runner up is Ghost.
My Take on The Quest for 200 Songs:
The band seems to be enjoying it. Even if its already been done before by them and no big deal, it seems to be encouraging them to reconnect with their history a bit. Hopefully that gets their song-writing juices flowing and brings us some new tunes in the not-to-distant future. There are a lot of fans who really love bustouts and they are getting multiple a show while the jam fans are getting both Type I and Type II jams at virtually every show. Exploration fans are excited too. Everybody goes home happy and sets stay fresher.
Most neglected album: Undermind
I think its songs have been heard a grand total of 4 times this tour collectively.
Tour Highlight Thus Far:
Musically, probably the Mike's Groove Below. But overall, I still give the nod to DCU N1 Ghost > Boogie. That two song sequence made jaws dropped, signaled a new invigoration and shut a lot of trolls up.
Overall take:
This summer has been incredible. I do not remember any period where night after night has been so consistently spectacular, creative, innovative, collaborative and fun. The stage banter is back. The smile is back. But, ultimately, this tour seems to be all about patience and listening to each other....if only the rest of society showed the same traits.
Score: 6
Very solid first leg and they are close to being what they were before the layoff. I'm afraid the last two years have hurt attendance for this year and it's sad because the boys are way better than both of those two years combined right now.
Score: 0
@Lemmiwinks said: Heading into the final stretch of Phish 2012 Leg 1, and enjoying a Stone Ruination 10th Anniversary bomber, I figured this is a good time to connect with the community on Phish 2012.This was a really great balanced recap of the tour so far. I liked it, and I agree with most of the points. I think it is fair to say that this tour has been the most consistently great tour of 3.0. Every show has something worth hearing, even Bonnaroo (Tweezer, The Gambler).
However, I do agree that the band is really on the verge of a really huge jam or two. Some of the 10-15 minute jams have been great (Worcester Carini, Twist from Cincinnati, every Light, DWD & Sand), and I feel like the band is really clicking together. Like a lot of folks, I am just waiting for them to hit that next level and really stretch things out.
Sure the 200 song thing is kind of a gimmick, but it's the kind of gimmick I love, because every night there is a chance at a cool bustout like Shaggy Dog or Sweet Jane.
I can't wait to see what the rest of the tour brings.
Score: 4
@ColForbin said: @Lemmiwinks said:Heading into the final stretch of Phish 2012 Leg 1, and enjoying a Stone Ruination 10th Anniversary bomber, I figured this is a good time to connect with the community on Phish 2012.This was a really great balanced recap of the tour so far. I liked it, and I agree with most of the points. I think it is fair to say that this tour has been the most consistently great tour of 3.0. Every show has something worth hearing, even Bonnaroo (Tweezer, The Gambler).
However, I do agree that the band is really on the verge of a really huge jam or two. Some of the 10-15 minute jams have been great (Worcester Carini, Twist from Cincinnati, every Light, DWD & Sand), and I feel like the band is really clicking together. Like a lot of folks, I am just waiting for them to hit that next level and really stretch things out.
Sure the 200 song thing is kind of a gimmick, but it's the kind of gimmick I love, because every night there is a chance at a cool bustout like Shaggy Dog or Sweet Jane.
I can't wait to see what the rest of the tour brings.
Agreed. I can't help thinking that a few gigantic jams are on the way. I remember back in 09 when some were preaching patience w the jams...they'll get their groove back, it just takes time, etc; well, whatever patience that was out there seemed to evaporate quickly and by last summer after Alpharetta people were chirping from the cheap seats. Point: the process has taken some time. They r playing at the highest level now since their return, to my ears. The logical next place for them to go, I think, is for some longer jams. I don't have to have it, but I think they're on the verge of this, too.
Score: 3
My 2012 tour thoughts...1) summer 2012 looks like it'll be duking it out w/ fall 2010 for best 3.0 tour. It'll come down to a matter of personal taste/preference... as always.
2) I was wrong. Mikes song should not go on vacation. Star lake and deer creek both had wonderfully creative mikes grooves.
3) for the first time, night in night out, patient playing is back. There have been jams that showed great patience but this is the first time you see it every night.
4) this tour seems to be a culmination of the many "sounds" they've been toying with since their return. Call it plinko, call it storage jamming- its all coming together.
5) cohesiveness is still a little hit and miss, but the misses are largely in the first set and the second sets have been almost entirely hits. I never mind a warm up set with a few gems before the boys crush everyone.
6) 20 minute jams still escape us. This falls in the category of they can but they don't... So why? There's no need to harp on this point. A string of well executed 10-15 min jams seems to work just fine!
7) segues and transitions are greatly improved. Bathtub at deer creek irked me a bit but hey, it still went into fluff head! Also, that's the only segue/transition thats coming to mind that "made me go hmm". All in all, the jams seem to have nice organic endings and natural transitions into the next song.
Enjoy jb/spac... The boys are on!
Score: 6
Agree. The music has been more consistently "phish-average-great" or better this tour than since the return. What I noticed in person (or at least perceived) at my one and only show so far (Centrum 2) was huge uptick in the direct interplay and communication between band members. I don't have examples from that show off the top of my head, but passages where not only are they playing together (they pretty much always are) but you can hear a real, in-the-moment, improvisational conversation and communication between two or more instruments. Sometimes its beautiful and complimentary, sometimes its tense, as though they are screaming at each other. I feel like I heard more of this at DCU than any of my previous shows in 3.0, by a long shot. An example off the top of my head is AV1 Suzy, starting around 4:40, for just about :30, Trey absolutely locking in on Page and mimicing his lines. (Fishman voices his approval.)
Also, I feel like, outside of the "big jams" there are many more instances of interesting and unique little musical ideas within songs than there have been in a long time. Seemingly every song has at least a few bars, if not more, of completely unique playing - a new phrase or idea - that we havent heard yet. Of course the fan's default position is that "every version is different" but there have been plenty of songs/versions that, while technically unique from any other, really did not offer any new or interesting musical ideas. New and interesting seems to be becoming the new (revisited?) norm. Lots of little phrases all over the place. This can add up to sharing bigger ideas.
Fishman is most improved over 2011. He is really stepping it up. The kit can sound like a carnival, all by itself. Insane fills wherever, whenever. To my ear he is on a different level than the past few years.
My outlook for spectacularly fun times and generally great music remains extremely high.
And my outlook for some truly transcendental juice is creeping north of cautiously optimistic...
Score: 7
Also, regarding the 200 - regardless of whether that is a serious target or was a general throw-away number, to me it is all up-side.More interesting and unpredictable setlists, but much more importantly, the commitment to relearn rare songs and maybe debut some new covers means they are comfortable with what they have been doing and are ready to grow and expand. I think a lot of us will agree thats the space where pretty much any artist will flourish.
Score: 2
@johnnydYou touched on 2 things that I forgot. Fishman's playing has been spot on. Definitely the most improved. Then there's general creativity. Yes, those little embellishments make a big difference. I think this comes from finally being able to feel the material vs having to think about it.
Score: 3
This tour has been random, expansive, and exploratory. I can honestly say its been totally excellent.
Score: 5
I see the whole tour so far as win/win: we're getting truly interesting jams (sometimes in surprising places) PLUS outrageous song selection. The band is at their most unpredictable right now and I'm personally loving the living crap out of it.
Score: 2
I don't understand the chase for 20+ minute jams. In my opinion 12-15 minutes is plenty long for a complete song with a jam. Some composed sections being longer.
That being said I would probably go crazy if I saw a second set that read: rock and roll> ghost-> 2001> Bowie.
That being said I would probably go crazy if I saw a second set that read: rock and roll> ghost-> 2001> Bowie.
Score: 2
@Reba2001 said: I don't understand the chase for 20+ minute jams. In my opinion 12-15 minutes is plenty long for a complete song with a jam. Some composed sections being longer.Some things can't be explained...
That being said I would probably go crazy if I saw a second set that read: rock and roll> ghost-> 2001> Bowie.
Score: 2
In my previous comment I neglected to mention one particularly awesome thing from this summer - the explosion in stage banter/associated antics. I love it! Portsmouth1 was one of the weaker shows on tour musically, but the tucking stuff, the lightsaber stuff, etc made it amazing to watch on the webcast. I was loving every minute of it and laughing out loud in my living room.Just wanted to post this lest you all think a jaded vet like me sits there with his arms crossed during a show if Ghost is less than 20 minutes.
Score: 1
@Reba2001 said: I don't understand the chase for 20+ minute jams. In my opinion 12-15 minutes is plenty long for a complete song with a jam. Some composed sections being longer.Go here:
That being said I would probably go crazy if I saw a second set that read: rock and roll> ghost-> 2001> Bowie.
http://phish.net/setlists/twenty-minute-jams.php
Listen to those tunes. Hell, just start at the top and listen to the first 2 AC/DC Bags. Then you will understand. :-)
Score: 3
@ColForbin said: In my previous comment I neglected to mention one particularly awesome thing from this summer - the explosion in stage banter/associated antics. I love it! Portsmouth1 was one of the weaker shows on tour musically, but the tucking stuff, the lightsaber stuff, etc made it amazing to watch on the webcast. I was loving every minute of it and laughing out loud in my living room.Sign'd. Even my wife was exploding laughing, and she particularly hates the silly side of phish.
Its important to note that it all seems pretty genuine and more or less spontaneous, not particularly forced. If they were just doing it as a schtick, I think we could tell and feel the difference.
Score: 2
I think this tour will go down as the best of 3.0 so far and I expect leg 2 to be even better. From the first night of the tour, I thought Fishman's playing was much better. He seems more prominent in the mix and he's been doing some great fills and using the woodblocks a lot. Who doesn't love the woodblocks? I think the biggest difference in this tour, and what has made it so good, is patience from the band, especially Trey. Trey has been sitting back a lot at the beginnings of jams and letting the other band members lead more. I think Trey is reacting more to the base of the music a lot more this year, and this gives the jams a more unique feeling. Instead of Trey just jumping right in with leads, he lets the music develop, and the rest of the band has been doing a great job with this.
It's nice to see the banter back as well. The banter this year has already surpassed all of the banter in the last few years I think. The Tuck show was crazy. I think the only gripe people can have with the band this tour are the few questionable setlist calls, like the end of 7/1, but overall, I think this tour has been great.
Edit-My favorite jam so far has been the AC BOAF->BOTT, a good example of that patience from Trey I was talking about.
Score: 1
@ColForbin said: @Reba2001 said:Cool. I had never seen the 20+ chartI don't understand the chase for 20+ minute jams. In my opinion 12-15 minutes is plenty long for a complete song with a jam. Some composed sections being longer.Go here:
That being said I would probably go crazy if I saw a second set that read: rock and roll> ghost-> 2001> Bowie.
http://phish.net/setlists/twenty-minute-jams.php
Listen to those tunes. Hell, just start at the top and listen to the first 2 AC/DC Bags. Then you will understand. :-)
Score: 1
@MiguelSanchez said: @ColForbin said:That chart is my spirit guide.@Reba2001 said:Cool. I had never seen the 20+ chartI don't understand the chase for 20+ minute jams. In my opinion 12-15 minutes is plenty long for a complete song with a jam. Some composed sections being longer.Go here:
That being said I would probably go crazy if I saw a second set that read: rock and roll> ghost-> 2001> Bowie.
http://phish.net/setlists/twenty-minute-jams.php
Listen to those tunes. Hell, just start at the top and listen to the first 2 AC/DC Bags. Then you will understand. :-)
My dream is that one day it will be a clickable chart with streams of all the tunes.
Score: 4
@ColForbin said:
@Reba2001 said:I understand all that. I have over 200 gigs of phish shows I've downloaded and listened to. Don't get me wrong those jams are awesome. But, is that 5 minutes really making a jam SOUND better?I don't understand the chase for 20+ minute jams. In my opinion 12-15 minutes is plenty long for a complete song with a jam. Some composed sections being longer.Go here:
That being said I would probably go crazy if I saw a second set that read: rock and roll> ghost-> 2001> Bowie.
http://phish.net/setlists/twenty-minute-jams.php
Listen to those tunes. Hell, just start at the top and listen to the first 2 AC/DC Bags. Then you will understand. :-)
Score: 2
@Reba2001 said: @ColForbin said:It depends on what happens in those 5 minutes.@Reba2001 said:I understand all that. I have over 200 gigs of phish shows I've downloaded and listened to. Don't get me wrong those jams are awesome. But, is that 5 minutes really making a jam SOUND better?I don't understand the chase for 20+ minute jams. In my opinion 12-15 minutes is plenty long for a complete song with a jam. Some composed sections being longer.Go here:
That being said I would probably go crazy if I saw a second set that read: rock and roll> ghost-> 2001> Bowie.
http://phish.net/setlists/twenty-minute-jams.php
Listen to those tunes. Hell, just start at the top and listen to the first 2 AC/DC Bags. Then you will understand. :-)
Score: 0
I've listened to a lot of the tour so far and, honestly, while they sound super tight there isn't much that I'll be listening to in the future. There's no 12/31/10 Ghost, or 6/3/11 DWD or 8/16/09 BDTNL. No real keepers.
The only two songs that stand out to me are the Torn and Frayed from DCU N1 (so inspired!) and the Fee from Alpine N2.
Just my 2 cents.
The only two songs that stand out to me are the Torn and Frayed from DCU N1 (so inspired!) and the Fee from Alpine N2.
Just my 2 cents.
Score: 0
Score: 3
@ProfPhan said: No real keepers.No real keepers? DCU N1 S2 begs to differ.............as does Cincy Twist, DCU DWD> Sand> Nellie, Burgettstown, etc......
Score: 1
To add my 2 cents to this discussion:1) I think the playing is very tight and the patience shown in letting the music develop organically is one of the best things I have noticed so far in this tour. Very much appreciated and enjoyed.
2) The stage banter/silliness (Tuck/light saber,etc.) is also a welcomed return and shows Phish still knows how to have fun and not take themselves too seriously.
3) Number of bust outs/covers is great. Too many of some of the older material in the past has sat dormant, and it is great to see. Hopefully some of these will not be one-offs and perhaps get played a couple of more times before the whole tour wraps up.
4) Phishgrass! I am very very glad to see this part of the repetoire return. Songs like Daniel Saw The Stone, The Old Home Place, etc. showcase the many musical genres that Phishs' music encompasses and it is great. Now can I get a Daniel Saw The Stone @ Atlanta?! Please!!
The only thing I am a bit disappointed at thus far is the 'unfinished' aspect of songs like Hood & Gin. In this era of 3.0 we have already witnessed the 'no whistle ending' of Reba! :-( I don't know if 'trend' is the appropriate word to use at this time, but two unfinished Hoods does bring up this question. Lets all hope and pray that this will not become a regular thing. > fingers crossed<
Score: 0
@Reba2001 said: @ColForbin said:Sound better? Maybe so, maybe not. I'll use one of my favs as an example, 7/2/97 Stash 30mins. Let's say the normal type I version is 13 min long. After that, the jam kinda of noodles around going nowhere for about 10 min. Then they all lock in and play one of the most beautiful sections in Phishtory for the last 5-7 min. The song could have cut all the extras out for an amazing 19 min jam but if they didn't wonder for 10 min would that last part have even happened? The longer jams have more time to develop and find that common melody. How many times in 3.0 have jams dissolved into space? A lot. What if a new section came out of that space instead of a diff song.@Reba2001 said:I understand all that. I have over 200 gigs of phish shows I've downloaded and listened to. Don't get me wrong those jams are awesome. But, is that 5 minutes really making a jam SOUND better?I don't understand the chase for 20+ minute jams. In my opinion 12-15 minutes is plenty long for a complete song with a jam. Some composed sections being longer.Go here:
That being said I would probably go crazy if I saw a second set that read: rock and roll> ghost-> 2001> Bowie.
http://phish.net/setlists/twenty-minute-jams.php
Listen to those tunes. Hell, just start at the top and listen to the first 2 AC/DC Bags. Then you will understand. :-)
In the 4-6 song 2nd sets there is a much lesser chance of a show ending with Heavy Things,Joy> Julius. UIC1 would be looked at a little diffently if the set ended like that instead of just with Fire. I find it hard to believe that most phans would rather see 3.0 Phish play 10 song 2nd sets instead of 6.
Quality> quantity always comes up regarding jam length. Let the same principle apply to a whole set, quality> quantity of songs. I've been on this forum for a year and a half and can't say I've ever seen the argument framed like that. In the end it doesn't matter though cause Phish will always do what they want.
Score: 4
@kingphish68 said:
Great, great thread. Thanks all.
They finished Hood Alpine night 1, and did the Reba whistling ending too! Personally I wouldn't complain about a WTU coming out of Hood either, damn was that cool.
The only thing I am a bit disappointed at thus far is the 'unfinished' aspect of songs like Hood & Gin. In this era of 3.0 we have already witnessed the 'no whistle ending' of Reba! :-( I don't know if 'trend' is the appropriate word to use at this time, but two unfinished Hoods does bring up this question. Lets all hope and pray that this will not become a regular thing. > fingers crossed<
Great, great thread. Thanks all.
Score: 0
I'm not so sure the 20+ jams will return with any consistency. I think the primary factor is likely drug-related which is to say, they aren't on them. I mean Trey apparently went through some pretty serious rehab and appears to still be committed to a steady routine of following the program. That's great for him and his family. That he has also found a way to bring his heart and soul back fully into Phish is fantastic for the rest of us. These 10+ minute jams we are getting are a testament to his and the rest of the bands fertile creativity without the need for medication. Period. As someone who has grown up side-by-side with Phish and had similar though far less serious experiences with the dark side of drugs, I am completely in tune with the music right now and it is leaving nothing desired for me - I mean, sure the quality varies from jam to jam and show to show, but the high points are as high as I need to be. I love it! It looks like Phish is loving it.
For those who would compare to previous eras of the band, I'd suggest simply being grateful that you have so much material with such a diverse set of qualities over such a long period of time to sink your teeth into. Yum! Oooh a juicy 30 minute AC/DC Bag! Ah a delicious 9 minute 46 Days! Such a bounty of goodness!
This is as good as it ever has been for me and it's indeed different than what came before. Taking a band with you through several phases of life is not easy to do and truly is a rare beast out there. Phish is doing it and I am doing it with them. I am truly inspired by that and in love with the whole thing all over again.
Score: 3
I only saw and listened to the AC shows in their entirety. They were great in almost every way. Almost every song seemed jammed out, and the "still waiting..." set sent me traveling through time. One of the only shaky points is the Cities> It's Ice transition because it is a little sloppy and forced. However it shows a willingness to take a risk, and combine two awesome songs. They're killing it, and I strongly request a listen to the AC Tube. It isn't twenty minutes, but I think if you listen to it you'll understand why they're not going there. Plus my new favorite opener is the Sloth, total surprise to the 'call the opener' crowd.
Score: 0
@careful_w_that_axe_Miller said: [quote]I got the ADHD straight up. I took a speed reading course but it's amazing how much you have to "train" to keep up speed;
I agree with everythng for the most part, think its fascinating that your expectations have leveled off, in my humble opinion they are still peaking and the JB: SPAC shows are going to be memorable; pretty close tohomefield advantage and I expect a smooth straight GROOVE
c
Score: 0
@MomaDan said:
We could run in circles with this all day. I totally agree with you that quality> quantity always. As is true with most things.
I guess it's a personal preference of mine that I would rather not wait through 10 minutes of nothingness to catch the moment. But, to each their own.
In the end ive been having a great time seeing this band over the passed 3 years. And for that I feel lucky.
@Reba2001 said:I understand where you are coming from. But, in that 10 minutes of wasted noodling space. Why not start a new song that gets the crowd grooving and then look for that epic moment again?@ColForbin said:Sound better? Maybe so, maybe not. I'll use one of my favs as an example, 7/2/97 Stash 30mins. Let's say the normal type I version is 13 min long. After that, the jam kinda of noodles around going nowhere for about 10 min. Then they all lock in and play one of the most beautiful sections in Phishtory for the last 5-7 min. The song could have cut all the extras out for an amazing 19 min jam but if they didn't wonder for 10 min would that last part have even happened? The longer jams have more time to develop and find that common melody. How many times in 3.0 have jams dissolved into space? A lot. What if a new section came out of that space instead of a diff song.@Reba2001 said:I understand all that. I have over 200 gigs of phish shows I've downloaded and listened to. Don't get me wrong those jams are awesome. But, is that 5 minutes really making a jam SOUND better?I don't understand the chase for 20+ minute jams. In my opinion 12-15 minutes is plenty long for a complete song with a jam. Some composed sections being longer.Go here:
That being said I would probably go crazy if I saw a second set that read: rock and roll> ghost-> 2001> Bowie.
http://phish.net/setlists/twenty-minute-jams.php
Listen to those tunes. Hell, just start at the top and listen to the first 2 AC/DC Bags. Then you will understand. :-)
In the 4-6 song 2nd sets there is a much lesser chance of a show ending with Heavy Things,Joy> Julius. UIC1 would be looked at a little diffently if the set ended like that instead of just with Fire. I find it hard to believe that most phans would rather see 3.0 Phish play 10 song 2nd sets instead of 6.
Quality> quantity always comes up regarding jam length. Let the same principle apply to a whole set, quality> quantity of songs. I've been on this forum for a year and a half and can't say I've ever seen the argument framed like that. In the end it doesn't matter though cause Phish will always do what they want.
We could run in circles with this all day. I totally agree with you that quality> quantity always. As is true with most things.
I guess it's a personal preference of mine that I would rather not wait through 10 minutes of nothingness to catch the moment. But, to each their own.
In the end ive been having a great time seeing this band over the passed 3 years. And for that I feel lucky.
Score: 1
A few random thoughts:A lot of the complaints from the last couple of years have been addressed. Much better transitions between songs, very few "ripcords" (DC2 was an exception), fewer "frontloaded" second sets where all the action happens in the first couple of tunes. More variety to the "jam vehicles".
Jamming seems cohesive and purposeful for the most part. I'm starting to hear a lot of recurring melodies and motifs crop up in the jams, and I think that's great. It's hard to keep track of, because the jamming has been popping up more often and in more varied spots, but for example there's a little five note melody in the DC Waves that I heard in last years MSG Carini and in something else at Worcester. I have a theory that the band is looking to develop ideas onstage that they may try to take into the studio later this year... but that's just armchair analysis. Bottom line is, they sound great, second sets are popping off and all indicators are "GO" for the last 5 shows of the leg.
The Light> Ghost from Alpine the other night is IMO exhibit A of how great the band is improvising right now. It's unreal that the Ghost was less than ten minutes...it is a legitimate creative high point for this tour. If we can't appreciate that, we really have to stop watching the clock and just start listening. We may not be getting the 4-6 song sets yet, but we are getting these 25-30 minute long "mini-suites" within the sets that seem to flow effortlessly...Carini> Taste> Ghost> Boogie> If I Could, Birds> BOTT, Twist> Piper> Billy Breathes, Mikes Groove from Star Lake, Waves> Bug from DC, DWD> Sand from DC, Golden Age> Ghost from Blossom...there's a lot of creativity on display in these segments and others.
I think we'll hear a second set somewhere in the next five that really puts it all together and rocks our collective world like nothing else "3.0" has brought to date.
Score: 4
Listening to Star Lake set II...fantastic jamming all the way through..especially the Mike's Groove. Can't wait for Leg 2
Score: 1
Love to see this positivity about those lovable Mayans, The Phish from Vermont. Really agree with pretty much all of the comments here. It's funny. I was going to say something about the song selection in the end of 2nd sets being a little lackluster, but I only found this one as a real example, at least on "paper" ---> 7/1 Farmhouse, 46 Days, Heavy Things, Joy, Julius
Still, I get the feeling that the boys kind of loose steam towards the end end of Act II. I've listened to every show this tour so far and if I were to burn anything to CDr, I image a lot disc 3s would be optional. Or maybe it's just the inclusion of songs that I feel are Set One-ers at random points during Set Two. Yeah maybe that's what's throwing me off. But hey this is not the Grateful Dead, it's ALWAYS important to remember that. Maybe the guys aren't as interested in making Set II as much of a "journey" as it used to be.
Can't wait to go to SPAC and see how things have developed, in person, since Worcester.
Score: 0
a song i heard the ocean sing is on fire
Score: 1
@TwiceBitten said: I was going to say something about the song selection in the end of 2nd sets being a little lackluster, but I only found this one as a real example, at least on "paper" --->I hear what you're saying, and that has been an issue at times, but there have been some signs that the trend is turning around. I would point to nights one and two of AC. Both nights they came to a point in the set where a string of set-closing songs or ballads might be expected...night one brought "Sneaking Sally" late-set, night two brought "Sand". More recently the epic "Waves> Bug" showed up late in DC1. There have been other examples. I think they are finishing stronger more consistently, though AV2 admittedly did go out with a whimper.
7/1 Farmhouse, 46 Days, Heavy Things, Joy, Julius
Still, I get the feeling that the boys kind of loose steam towards the end end of Act II. I've listened to every show this tour so far and if I were to burn anything to CDr, I image a lot disc 3s would be optional. Or maybe it's just the inclusion of songs that I feel are Set One-ers at random points during Set Two. Yeah maybe that's what's throwing me off. But hey this is not the Grateful Dead, it's ALWAYS important to remember that. Maybe the guys aren't as interested in making Set II as much of a "journey" as it used to be.
edit- Piper showed up late set at Blossom too, IMO that set finished strong.
Score: 0
@joechip said: A few random thoughts:I enjoyed this post. Well said.
A lot of the complaints from the last couple of years have been addressed. Much better transitions between songs, very few "ripcords" (DC2 was an exception), fewer "frontloaded" second sets where all the action happens in the first couple of tunes. More variety to the "jam vehicles".
Jamming seems cohesive and purposeful for the most part. I'm starting to hear a lot of recurring melodies and motifs crop up in the jams, and I think that's great. It's hard to keep track of, because the jamming has been popping up more often and in more varied spots, but for example there's a little five note melody in the DC Waves that I heard in last years MSG Carini and in something else at Worcester. I have a theory that the band is looking to develop ideas onstage that they may try to take into the studio later this year... but that's just armchair analysis. Bottom line is, they sound great, second sets are popping off and all indicators are "GO" for the last 5 shows of the leg.
The Light> Ghost from Alpine the other night is IMO exhibit A of how great the band is improvising right now. It's unreal that the Ghost was less than ten minutes...it is a legitimate creative high point for this tour. If we can't appreciate that, we really have to stop watching the clock and just start listening. We may not be getting the 4-6 song sets yet, but we are getting these 25-30 minute long "mini-suites" within the sets that seem to flow effortlessly...Carini> Taste> Ghost> Boogie> If I Could, Birds> BOTT, Twist> Piper> Billy Breathes, Mikes Groove from Star Lake, Waves> Bug from DC, DWD> Sand from DC, Golden Age> Ghost from Blossom...there's a lot of creativity on display in these segments and others.
I think we'll hear a second set somewhere in the next five that really puts it all together and rocks our collective world like nothing else "3.0" has brought to date.
Edit: I love that Alpine Ghost. Great Stuff. I believe I posted that it was Sexy Hot after I relistened
Score: 0
This thread rocks btw.
Score: 0
@cavern48 said: I love this tour. I love them. They are best band, and clearly having a a blast on stage.tarzan is right!
Score: 1
You must be logged in to leave a comment!