Back to Forum
Oldest First
Newest First
this may be long, but i feel i need to vent (from a person who did not vote).
I am a 22 yo recent college graduate (in biology, wtf does that have to do with politics?), and I have no idea how to feel about obama's economic policies. However, i do know that women's rights and gay rights(I ain't gay), abortion? legal weed? appeal to me, as they are the inherent rights (i feel) as written in the constitution. My mom is democratic, and my dad is republican; though i love them both. That being said, I tend to side with mom on social issues, and dad on economic issues. I want my parents to be able to retire on an economic tax cuts as promised by romney, yet i regret all the anti-women, gays rights statements by republicans. To further my chasm, i feel that obamacare is a joke. I think it is driving our nation's best doctors away from the field (look into it, the u.s has the most badass doctors in the world, and they hate it). On the other hand, I mfing love the environment, and would love a liberal to save the louisiana coast (we are losing inches a year, which is HUGE) I want all of you to defend obama/obamacare/obamas economic policieS/environmental policies.
I am a 22 yo recent college graduate (in biology, wtf does that have to do with politics?), and I have no idea how to feel about obama's economic policies. However, i do know that women's rights and gay rights(I ain't gay), abortion? legal weed? appeal to me, as they are the inherent rights (i feel) as written in the constitution. My mom is democratic, and my dad is republican; though i love them both. That being said, I tend to side with mom on social issues, and dad on economic issues. I want my parents to be able to retire on an economic tax cuts as promised by romney, yet i regret all the anti-women, gays rights statements by republicans. To further my chasm, i feel that obamacare is a joke. I think it is driving our nation's best doctors away from the field (look into it, the u.s has the most badass doctors in the world, and they hate it). On the other hand, I mfing love the environment, and would love a liberal to save the louisiana coast (we are losing inches a year, which is HUGE) I want all of you to defend obama/obamacare/obamas economic policieS/environmental policies.
Score: 0
Yeah, um, there's this thing called the internet, and you can use it to research a huge range of topics. So you could have, for example, found out what the Affordable Care Act actually involves. Then you could have read informed opinions on both sides of the issue, and ultimately reached your own conclusions.
You could have done the same thing for topics like global warming, the rights that are actually enumerated in the Constitution, and the other things that seem to be on your mind.
It would have been wonderful if you had done this before the election, so you could have made up your own mind and participated in our democratic process by voting. But, alas, you didn't, and are now asking the members of a fucking Phish message board to defend the President's policies because you couldn't be bothered to do it yourself.
Grow. The. f***. Up.
All best otherwise,
jay
You could have done the same thing for topics like global warming, the rights that are actually enumerated in the Constitution, and the other things that seem to be on your mind.
It would have been wonderful if you had done this before the election, so you could have made up your own mind and participated in our democratic process by voting. But, alas, you didn't, and are now asking the members of a fucking Phish message board to defend the President's policies because you couldn't be bothered to do it yourself.
Grow. The. f***. Up.
All best otherwise,
jay
Score: 31
Too soon?
Score: 5
Hey @jaylimmo, if you are ready to have a one on one debate, i am motherfuckingready. As you said nothing of worth in your post, i will ignore it.
Score: -4
Dude...im asking honestly. Im not against obama at all...as i said in my post i feel like my political concerns align w himim just asking how things will turn out...but as you suggested, everything on the internet MUST be gru
Score: 1
All hail @jaylimmo"s foresight in the future years!!!!
Score: 3
You guys should be in bed...
Score: 5
Can you feel the love?
Score: 1
@jaylimmo said: Yeah, um, there's this thing called the internet, and you can use it to research a huge range of topics. So you could have, for example, found out what the Affordable Care Act actually involves. Then you could have read informed opinions on both sides of the issue, and ultimately reached your own conclusions. You could have done the same thing for topics like global warming, the rights that are actually enumerated in the Constitution, and the other things that seem to be on your mind. It would have been wonderful if you had done this before the election, so you could have made up your own mind and participated in our democratic process by voting. But, alas, you didn't, and are now asking the members of a f***ing Phish message board to defend the President's policies because you couldn't be bothered to do it yourself. Grow. The. f***. Up. All best otherwise, jayHave you looked at what obamacare actually involves?
it might sound great, sure, but at what cost? Im all for healthcare reform. the current healthcare field is a crock of shit. But look into it a little more. and remember not everything on the internet is what it seems.
I work in healthcare and I just had a meeting with my boss yesterday and he told me that we are most likely going to loose about half our staff due to this thing. It is written in that a part time employee has to work at least 34 hours a week to get the benifits or the company that the employee works for will be fined $2000 per employee who comes in under 34 hours a week. we hire a lot of special needs people through outside work programs, who cant work more than 24 hours a week. And if they dont comply with the 34 hour a week thing they could also loose out on their benifits and wont be eligible for them again for 12 years.
So if their going to get the benifits anyway, why the hell would they want to work? So hard working people like you and me can pay for it.
This law going into effect is written to sound like rainbows and unicorns, but its is just ment to pull the wool over your eyes untill its too late to repeal it.
Think about it for a bit before you jump all over me for being a "racist obama hater" or what ever you libs call us these days.
hey frezzertwezzer... how bout that beer.
Score: 3
The Affordable Care Act and what is deemed Romney Care are actually, at heart, the exact same thing. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brad-burd/obamacare-romneycare_b_1956075.html
This shows some really good insight.
Why did some of you guys jump down the throat of the OP? He was venting, giving his opinion. To get all over him for posting is a bit much. @jaylimmo you say this is a Phish message board, and it is, but have you seen the threads when the boys aren't on tour? Come on. Give him/her a break and respond like a human being.
Score: 3
@freezertweezer said: this may be long, but i feel i need to vent (from a person who did not vote). I am a 22 yo recent college graduate (in biology, wtf does that have to do with politics?), and I have no idea how to feel about obama's economic policies. However, i do know that women's rights and gay rights(I ain't gay), abortion? legal weed? appeal to me, as they are the inherent rights (i feel) as written in the constitution. My mom is democratic, and my dad is republican; though i love them both. That being said, I tend to side with mom on social issues, and dad on economic issues. I want my parents to be able to retire on an economic tax cuts as promised by romney, yet i regret all the anti-women, gays rights statements by republicans. To further my chasm, i feel that obamacare is a joke. I think it is driving our nation's best doctors away from the field (look into it, the u.s has the most badass doctors in the world, and they hate it). On the other hand, I mfing love the environment, and would love a liberal to save the louisiana coast (we are losing inches a year, which is HUGE) I want all of you to defend obama/obamacare/obamas economic policieS/environmental policies.
Im pretty sure the founding fathers werent thinking of legal weed and abortion at all, while drafting the constition.
I want u to defend the fact that u didnt vote, but are so opinoinated about politics! Dont give me that My vote doesnt count crap either! Voting isnt just a president thing, its a senate/congress/district attorney thing as well!
Score: 7
@Phlat_Brim_Kid said: Agreed. You can really make a difference on a local level and it is easy to get involved in causes that you agree with. Look at what happened in Washington State and Colorado this week. That started with some people wanting to change a law in their state. A few years ago, some of the same people got a similar law changed in Denver. It all starts somewhere and it's usually on the local level.
I want u to defend the fact that u didnt vote, but are so opinoinated about politics! Dont give me that My vote doesnt count crap either! Voting isnt just a president thing, its a senate/congress/district attorney thing as well!
Score: 1
Did you ask all your doctors how they feel personally? I did. There are things they like and things they don't like about it. Anyone who says it's driving them from the field is just being dramatic for political reasons.From my polling of my doctors they are mixed on it but all agree this is fantastic if you're one of the poorer people in this nation who need better health care. I'm proud that this country has chosen to stay on the slow but steady recovery path vs slashing the spending that gives this type of support to the poorest Americans just to speed the recovery.
Score: 4
So now after the election you want to know Obama's policies? No wonder you didnt vote...
Score: 5
all I want to say is Kurt Vonnegut would not approve of this thread title...
Score: 2
@freezertweezer ladies and gentlemen, the future of our country.
Score: 4
the rapidity with which this thread descended into childish bickering is a perfect example of why this country is in deep trouble. the polarization of the political landscape in america is such that even phans on .net can't talk about anything remotely political without it turning into a crossfire-style shouting match. come on people! whether you're liberal, conservative, libertarian, republican or democrat, the powers that be - from the Koch brothers to George Soros - want us to keep arguing like this rather than get together and find common ground because then we might actually find a better system than the one we have now.
Score: 3
@harroldHOOD said: all I want to say is Kurt Vonnegut would not approve of this thread title...Thank you for noticing that as well.
Now for what I actually have to say. so from what I see you didn't vote? yeah then your gonna have to live with that fact for 4 years (at least if you don't like what the president does) and as for your dilemma i suggest that you do some research and figure it out its not hard and frankly I hate to say it this is not the place for political advice.
my .02
Score: 0
OP, your concerns are quite common. Many folks also support fiscal restraint and lower taxes but are turned off but the "social conservatism" of the republican party (myself included). The first thing you must do is educate yourself about economics. You may have taken econ courses in school, but, its not enough. I'd suggest reading columns/books by written by Thomas Sowell, in particular, read "basic economics". Unfortunately, most economics is very boring to learn (very few of us like charts and graphs), however, he uses real life examples to explain the effect of economic principles. He is a conservative columnist as well. To balance things out, also read columns/books by Paul Krugman. I'm sure there are authors other might recommend as well.
I dealt with same issue this election. I handled it by prioritizing the issues. My thought was that abortion, gay marriage, and other social issues are less of a threat to the long term stability of our republic than a weak economy and our enormous government debt. I judged that Romney was not likely to use the office to oppose gay marriage or abortion (abortion is pretty much settled as a matter of law) even though he is personally opposed to gay marriage and abortion.
Also, Its ok that you didn't vote. Many voters do not have a deep enough understanding of the issues in order to make reasonable decisions. The lack of understanding makes it easier for the political salespeople (candidates, media, opinion industry, activists) to mislead and manipulate voters. Educate yourself and you'll be able to see through the bullshit.
This message board can be one of the nicer hang outs on the interwebs so it is a good place to ask questions and start discussions despite some of the negative responses.
J
I dealt with same issue this election. I handled it by prioritizing the issues. My thought was that abortion, gay marriage, and other social issues are less of a threat to the long term stability of our republic than a weak economy and our enormous government debt. I judged that Romney was not likely to use the office to oppose gay marriage or abortion (abortion is pretty much settled as a matter of law) even though he is personally opposed to gay marriage and abortion.
Also, Its ok that you didn't vote. Many voters do not have a deep enough understanding of the issues in order to make reasonable decisions. The lack of understanding makes it easier for the political salespeople (candidates, media, opinion industry, activists) to mislead and manipulate voters. Educate yourself and you'll be able to see through the bullshit.
This message board can be one of the nicer hang outs on the interwebs so it is a good place to ask questions and start discussions despite some of the negative responses.
J
Score: 6
I don't care how you vote (liberal or conservative), but the fact that you didn't vote is shameful. People get murdered and tortured everyday around the world hoping that one day future people in their country may one day be able to vote, and you chose to stay ignorant and not vote. Shame on you. And then to feel the need to vent when you did nothing to change how things happened...shameful.
Score: 3
I thought this thread was about that Tom Hanks movie where he's in the airport. Eh?
Score: 0
Gonna try not to be harsh, but I do agree with many of the harsher sentiments in this thread. You basically acknowledge that you don't know much about the issues, and don't even have the background to begin to analyze them. Yet you're planting a flag in sort of extreme territory based on, what, soundbytes maybe? Saying "Here's where I'm at (based on nothing), prove me wrong!" Every single issue - from local to national and international - be they social, environmental, economic, or any other category, has many more than two sides and many systems feeding into it. Deciding what is good or right or utilitarian is rarely easy, even from a straight systems analysis point of view based on policy alone. Add in legitimate differences in personal values, and then far less legitimate political grandstanding, greed, and power-grabs, and you've got yourself a humdinger of a task to be even a moderately educated, responsible citizen. And then the real challenge is, the more legit info you learn about any issue, the easier it is to become disillusioned when you hear the talking heads yapping about it, totally missing the point. (Not to include @talkinghead, who seems to be a guy whos really got his head on straight.)
So, to use a science example for you, your first post is akin to saying. "Teach me organic chemistry. BTW, I don't know what the periodic table is. Also, I don't think covalent bonding is a real thing."
Good luck, OP. Seems like your heart is kinda in the right place. But this isn't easy stuff. It's an active pursuit that takes a strong background to even get started on.
Score: 6
@johnnyd said: Wow. I learned about Covalent Bonds the other day while watching the movie 21 JUMP Street. Small world.
So, to use a science example for you, your first post is akin to saying. "Teach me organic chemistry. BTW, I don't know what the periodic table is. Also, I don't think covalent bonding is a real thing."
Score: 1
@freezertweezer said:
Anger, as an emotion, is the easiest to indulge and quickest to satisfy. Once it’s gone, it’s usually the one you regret having indulged.
So, freezertweezer, I apologize to you for the tone of my post. The tone, mind you. I could have phrased things in a more temperate way.
The substance of the post, however, I stand by completely.
Wisdom takes time and effort to gain, more than most people feel like putting in. In fact, you’ll come to realize that you need a certain amount of wisdom just to determine WHERE to find wisdom in the first place. From your original post, freezertweezer, ( and I hope it’s okay if I just call you FT from here on out ) it seems like your primary – and contradictory – sources of wisdom are your parents. Now you’re reaching the place where they are no longer sufficient. This is great, because now you really have to start the painful and entirely necessary process of thinking for yourself.
It’s gonna suck, and it’s going to require sustained effort for, oh, roughly the rest of your life. But the other alternative is to let other people’s opinions be a substitute for your own wisdom. Many people are content to live their lives this way. It’s encouraging that you don’t want to be one of them. ( You don’t, do you, FT? )
One thing you might work on is handling shades of gray. Because very few things in life are truly black-and-white, FT, despite what lots and lots and lots of other people would like you to think, and that’s where you most need to apply your intellect and intuition.
Examples:
President Obama. He’s done some amazing things. He’s also done some absolutely horrible things. And some things that fall in between. I had to weigh these things when going into the voting booth. ( Please note that I have not specified what I deem amazing or horrible. Or that I voted for him. )
The Affordable Care Act. The father who is collecting donations because he has an infant son with brain cancer and no health insurance will naturally see the ACA differently than someone like theUNITmonster, who may be facing a serious downturn in his fortunes as a result of it. Who’s right? Both? Neither?
Shades of gray.
It is my hope, FT, that when the 2016 elections roll around – no, f*** that, when the 2014 elections roll around, because the non-Presidential elections are just as important – you won’t need to ask other people what to think. You will have gone to the trouble of finding out what’s at stake, finding out both sides of the issues at hand, and figuring out where you stand.
With all best wishes
jay
P.S. f*** the haters, covalent bonding is TOTALLY a thing
All hail @jaylimmo"s foresight in the future years!!!!That's the smartest thing you've said so far, but on the other hand:
Anger, as an emotion, is the easiest to indulge and quickest to satisfy. Once it’s gone, it’s usually the one you regret having indulged.
So, freezertweezer, I apologize to you for the tone of my post. The tone, mind you. I could have phrased things in a more temperate way.
The substance of the post, however, I stand by completely.
Wisdom takes time and effort to gain, more than most people feel like putting in. In fact, you’ll come to realize that you need a certain amount of wisdom just to determine WHERE to find wisdom in the first place. From your original post, freezertweezer, ( and I hope it’s okay if I just call you FT from here on out ) it seems like your primary – and contradictory – sources of wisdom are your parents. Now you’re reaching the place where they are no longer sufficient. This is great, because now you really have to start the painful and entirely necessary process of thinking for yourself.
It’s gonna suck, and it’s going to require sustained effort for, oh, roughly the rest of your life. But the other alternative is to let other people’s opinions be a substitute for your own wisdom. Many people are content to live their lives this way. It’s encouraging that you don’t want to be one of them. ( You don’t, do you, FT? )
One thing you might work on is handling shades of gray. Because very few things in life are truly black-and-white, FT, despite what lots and lots and lots of other people would like you to think, and that’s where you most need to apply your intellect and intuition.
Examples:
President Obama. He’s done some amazing things. He’s also done some absolutely horrible things. And some things that fall in between. I had to weigh these things when going into the voting booth. ( Please note that I have not specified what I deem amazing or horrible. Or that I voted for him. )
The Affordable Care Act. The father who is collecting donations because he has an infant son with brain cancer and no health insurance will naturally see the ACA differently than someone like theUNITmonster, who may be facing a serious downturn in his fortunes as a result of it. Who’s right? Both? Neither?
Shades of gray.
It is my hope, FT, that when the 2016 elections roll around – no, f*** that, when the 2014 elections roll around, because the non-Presidential elections are just as important – you won’t need to ask other people what to think. You will have gone to the trouble of finding out what’s at stake, finding out both sides of the issues at hand, and figuring out where you stand.
With all best wishes
jay
P.S. f*** the haters, covalent bonding is TOTALLY a thing
Score: 3
OP two things: Google & Books.
Score: 1
stopped reading at "from a person who did not vote"if you don't vote you can't complain
"Don't blame me I voted for Kodos"
Score: 0
As usual, @johnnyd is the voice of reason.
Score: 0
OK i started this thread wasted late night, and i regret how i wrote it and how it was interpreted. It wasnt meant to express any of my political opinions at all, or to complain about the results of the election, though i see how it came across.
I agree with (most) of your harsh sentiments, and I AM ashamed I didn't vote. Had the ballot contained issues pertaining to differential equations, molecular biology pathways, physiology, etc., I would have voted because I have a strong understanding of these things. Economic policy, tax reform etc, however, is something that is completely beyond me, and I'm not ashamed to say so. The more I try to learn about these things, the more disillusioned I become, as both sides have experts swearing their way is the way to go. Same with the Affordable care act. How many of you can honestly say you KNOW the side you voted for is the way to go with these issues? Did you reach these conclusions by googling it? Trust me, I've done the same, and I can say I have no Fing idea. Did you just pick one side and trust their experts over the other? I honestly believe those of you who swear to be informed did just that, its not like you have a phd in economics, which I believe one would require to actually grasp these issues.
Social issues are easy for me, let people do what they want.
I really like what @fertilizer said about prioritizing issues most important to you. Haven't really thought about it that way, and thats probably why i'm overwhelmed trying to grasp every issue on a candidates platform.
@jaylimmo, thanks for that second post. I really do think for myself, I think more so than most people. Everytime I try and take a stance, however, I end up in those shades of grey. I guess I just haven't had government affect me in specific ways yet, thus can't necessarily vote based on how these things directly affect me.
Sorry if i pissed anyone off, really didn't mean to
I agree with (most) of your harsh sentiments, and I AM ashamed I didn't vote. Had the ballot contained issues pertaining to differential equations, molecular biology pathways, physiology, etc., I would have voted because I have a strong understanding of these things. Economic policy, tax reform etc, however, is something that is completely beyond me, and I'm not ashamed to say so. The more I try to learn about these things, the more disillusioned I become, as both sides have experts swearing their way is the way to go. Same with the Affordable care act. How many of you can honestly say you KNOW the side you voted for is the way to go with these issues? Did you reach these conclusions by googling it? Trust me, I've done the same, and I can say I have no Fing idea. Did you just pick one side and trust their experts over the other? I honestly believe those of you who swear to be informed did just that, its not like you have a phd in economics, which I believe one would require to actually grasp these issues.
Social issues are easy for me, let people do what they want.
I really like what @fertilizer said about prioritizing issues most important to you. Haven't really thought about it that way, and thats probably why i'm overwhelmed trying to grasp every issue on a candidates platform.
@jaylimmo, thanks for that second post. I really do think for myself, I think more so than most people. Everytime I try and take a stance, however, I end up in those shades of grey. I guess I just haven't had government affect me in specific ways yet, thus can't necessarily vote based on how these things directly affect me.
Sorry if i pissed anyone off, really didn't mean to
Score: 3
@freezertweezer said: Had the ballot contained issues pertaining to differential equations, molecular biology pathways, physiology, etc., I would have voted because I have a strong understanding of these things. Economic policy, tax reform etc, however, is something that is completely beyond me, and I'm not ashamed to say so.Where do you think the different parties get all of their economic models from?
Google Mathematical Economics and look into the competing interpretations within that field. There are different applications for some of the basic concepts and different models that flow out of that. Although some people criticize the field, it can be an interesting start.
Score: 0
Romney's economic plan:1. Give more money to rich people
2. ???
3. Profit
Obama's economic plan:
1. Invest in jobs for the middle/lower class
2. Make the mega rich pay their fair share
3. Everybody is comfortable
And "Obamacare" should really be called "Romneycare." A few years ago when Mitt was still governor he approved a bill that was very similar to the one that the Obama administration has. Funny thing is, when this was going on in MA all the democrats were totally against it and now that it's happening on a national level all the republicans are losing their minds. So much for bipartisanship eh?
Score: 1
We elect a President, not an Emperor.
We also elect a Congress, not a Court.
We ignore the people with the money that fund, operate and control who is selected for us to Elect.
Move pass the idea that who is President really matters (it does not at present), and address the true issue in the electoral process.
That we do not select the people we elect. (Primaries are the process that select who we decide between to elect, but the same illusion of 'selecting' remains)
Elect no one at the national level. Send no one to the 'Court' of Congress, Send no one to the 'Castle' of the Presidency.
Remind the Nationalists that we are 50 unique realms with a need to only wield our collective might when we are collectively or individually threatened.
We also elect a Congress, not a Court.
We ignore the people with the money that fund, operate and control who is selected for us to Elect.
Move pass the idea that who is President really matters (it does not at present), and address the true issue in the electoral process.
That we do not select the people we elect. (Primaries are the process that select who we decide between to elect, but the same illusion of 'selecting' remains)
Elect no one at the national level. Send no one to the 'Court' of Congress, Send no one to the 'Castle' of the Presidency.
Remind the Nationalists that we are 50 unique realms with a need to only wield our collective might when we are collectively or individually threatened.
Score: 2
@freezertweezer said:
this may be long, but i feel i need to vent (from a person who did not vote).There is no defense for Obamacare or his economic policies.
I am a 22 yo recent college graduate (in biology, wtf does that have to do with politics?), and I have no idea how to feel about obama's economic policies. However, i do know that women's rights and gay rights(I ain't gay), abortion? legal weed? appeal to me, as they are the inherent rights (i feel) as written in the constitution. My mom is democratic, and my dad is republican; though i love them both. That being said, I tend to side with mom on social issues, and dad on economic issues. I want my parents to be able to retire on an economic tax cuts as promised by romney, yet i regret all the anti-women, gays rights statements by republicans. To further my chasm, i feel that obamacare is a joke. I think it is driving our nation's best doctors away from the field (look into it, the u.s has the most badass doctors in the world, and they hate it). On the other hand, I mfing love the environment, and would love a liberal to save the louisiana coast (we are losing inches a year, which is HUGE) I want all of you to defend obama/obamacare/obamas economic policieS/environmental policies.
Score: 0
Do go on...
Score: 1
the "affordable health care act" aka obamacare is absolutely a disgusting piece of legislative shit, and it was intended to be exactly that by the congressmen who wrote it hoping the american people would rise up in open revolt when they read it. it is the result of a bipartisan congress that refuses to work together, that would rather see their opponents fail than actually pass laws that would be of any benefit to anyone.Imagine you are forced to team up with the single person you hate most in the entire world and the two of you have to stand in a little kitchen together and bake a cake. Do you think anyone would want to take one bite of that cake? That's congress, and we eat their cake.
Score: 1
@freezertweezer said: Social issues are easy for me, let people do what they want.I think you missed the pretty important second part of that: "...as long as it doesn't hurt other people."
Score: 0
@benevolution said: Imagine you are forced to team up with the single person you hate most in the entire world and the two of you have to stand in a little kitchen together and bake a cake. Do you think anyone would want to take one bite of that cake? That's congress, and we eat their cake.Are we allowed to get baked before baking the cake? I feel that if we are, the cake will be magnificent.
Score: 2
You must be logged in to leave a comment!