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to pay over face for a Phish ticket?
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edit- whoops thought you were new for a sec
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Whenever it happens man. I spent literally every sent to have a chance to be page side NYE money means shit, the memory is worth it imo, but I'm enthusiastic about Phish, I'm ready to devote a few months to them in '13 wasn't gonna miss first few minutes of the year
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I'm not asking for myself. The answer for me is never. I'm just wondering what you all think.
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When you are shut out and really want to go to the show
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Never have. Never will.
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If you Really want to be there...
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Ya gotta do whatcha gotta do. I wouldn't ever sell a ticket for over face, but I wouldn't fault someone for paying it.This year, if I had the money, you bet your ass I would pay several hundred bucks to be there.
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I think if you've got the $$ and you really want to be there then you pay what is necessary.
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@TheEmu said: Ya gotta do whatcha gotta do. I wouldn't ever sell a ticket for over face, but I wouldn't fault someone for paying it.Nailed it, are these shows worth the thousands people are paying? To us they are...
This year, if I had the money, you bet your ass I would pay several hundred bucks to be there.
Can most of us afford that...Hell to the no
Would we spend it if we had it to blow... maybe so, maybe not
Would you ever catch me selling a ticket for that much...f*** NO!!!
*non phish related story* had a guy offer me $1000 cash for a pair of Jack White tickets for a show here in Asheville...laughed in his face and rocked my ass off that night, did I need the cash? Oh yes, very much so...do I regret not scalping that pair of tickets...HELL NO, i got to see Jack White in a tiny awesome sounding hole in my homestate, priceless
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@me_no_are_no_nice_guy said: The answer for me is never.
@GrooveHolmes said:
Never have. Never will.These.
Well, I won't quite say I never will. One of these years, if I continue to not get lucky through official channels, I might consider paying over face for a really good seat once. Not likely, but I'm reserving that right for myself. Or I might just go close at a festival. There's that.
I'm not gonna tell someone, unsolicited, what to do with their money, but if someone asks me I'd suggest to never pay more than face.
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I think its basically okay to pay over face if you really want to be in the first five rows of a non-GA venue. For Hartford 09 I bought a lawn ticket for face. Some friends, unbeknownst to me, bought me a stubhub ticket with them in the fourth row for like $120. I debated just sticking with my lawn ticket but in the end Im glad I sold it and bought my friends ticket near the stage. If that show had sucked, I would have a difft opinion but in hindsight it was totally worth it.
If youre of the attitude that money is no object and youll pay anything to see phish then youre just a ravenous n00b and youll likely grow out of it. Or go broke. Or diaf.
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For one thing, paying over face directly contributes to the scalping problem.Game Theory
Further Analysis
For another, its pretty much spitting in the face of the band, which has historically kept prices for seats pretty much the same, attempting to give everyone an equal shot at great tickets. It doesn't jive with a large part of what I believe are some of the underlying prinicples of the phish experience. YM, of course, MV.
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I don't like the idea of paying over face and perpetuating the problem of scalping.But, should the Mrs and I ever get the opportunity to head to high visibility show, like NYE or Halloween, Vegas, etc...I might shell out just enough to make sure I get in the building.
I would never drop top dollar for pit tickets, but I would want to guarantee my entrance to the show if I'm travelling half way across the country for it.
In the meantime, I'll keep paying face and attending my regional shows.
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@johnnyd said: For one thing, paying over face directly contributes to the scalping problem.I defecated when I should have cooperated. <Facepalm>
Game Theory
Further Analysis
For another, its pretty much spitting in the face of the band, which has historically kept prices for seats pretty much the same, attempting to give everyone an equal shot at great tickets. It doesn't jive with a large part of what I believe are some of the underlying prinicples of the phish experience. YM, of course, MV.
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supply and demand. if people really want it, they will pay. if that person wont pay 4x over face, then this sucker over there will. thats how it works. not just for phish either.
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I have done it once.......paid over face to get into 2-15-03 in vegas.....simply couldn't bear the thought of not being in the buildingI have made asses of a lot of scalpers though.....standing outside pro football games until you can hear the noise from kick off......then comes the hard sell......"I'll give you face for that ticket right now....in 5 minutes, I'll give you half that"......results!!!
I worked the same game one time on a scalper outside a small venue ben harper show........"ben always starts on time you know......face now.....half that in 5 minutes.....bingo"....I thought he was going to punch me, but he sold the ticket....business is business
It only works if you can find that perfect storm of someone holding multiples at showtime
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I paid $100 for one night Hampton 09. I didn't feel bad. I felt like it was a really good deal. It was for the Sunday night show.
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@JayDubya said: I don't like the idea of paying over face and perpetuating the problem of scalping.This, pretty much. If I'm travelling a great distance, or if it's a show like Halloween, I'd consider paying my way into the building.
I would never drop top dollar for pit tickets, but I would want to guarantee my entrance to the show if I'm travelling half way across the country for it.
Although, this too:
@TheEmu said:
I wouldn't ever sell a ticket for over face, but I wouldn't fault someone for paying it.
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I bought over face twice. Those two shows, 10-20-2010 & 01-01-2011, are easily in my personal top five. But paying 100$ for an indoor show and crazy crazy.
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we are completely fooling ourselves if we really think a few hundred of us at best can stop scalping at MSG on NYE by "refusing to pay over face".
That's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze
That's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze
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I dont think anyone said that.
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The four basic laws of supply and demand are:[1]If demand increases and supply remains unchanged, a shortage altogether, thus leads to a higher equilibrium price.
If demand decreases and supply remains unchanged, a surplus altogether, thus leads to a lower equilibrium price.
If demand remains unchanged and supply increases, a surplus altogether, thus leads to a lower equilibrium price.
If demand remains unchanged and supply decreases, a shortage altogether, thus leads to a higher equilibrium price.
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Isn't it hypocritical, if you're a purchaser of over face tickets, to then bitch about scalpers?In fact, by pruchasing tickets over face value, you are in fact actively supporting the scalping business. It's greed on both sides. Greed from the scalpers taking advantage of fans who got shutout, and greed from the fans who NEED to get into a certain show.
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^^^yes, agreed.
To me at least. Kind of a pet peeve.
"I just paid $250 for a nosebleed.
This system is so f***ed up."
The cognitive dissonance hurts.
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@me_no_are_no_nice_guy said: Isn't it hypocritical then, if you're a purchaser of over face tickets, to then bitch about scalpers?Yes. And I am comfortable with this known hypocriticalality about myself. And I'm too tired to figure out what the appropriate word for hypocriticalality is.
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@mfhgreyboy said: ...what the appropriate word for hypocriticalality is.This works. the extra al resulting in alal has a nice ring to it.
Makes me think of a hippopotamus that speaks arabic.
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@johnnyd said: @mfhgreyboy said:EXACTLY what I was going for......what the appropriate word for hypocriticalality is.This works. the extra al resulting in alal has a nice ring to it.
Makes me think of a hippopotamus that speaks arabic.
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Last year, some kids sold me two NYE tickets outside MSG for sixty bucks. I knew face was seventy for tickets, does this malee a terrible person?
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@me_no_are_no_nice_guy said:
Two minutes after I buy that ticket I'm ready to enjoy the show and the cost was worth it to mee.
Isn't it hypocritical, if you're a purchaser of over face tickets, to then bitch about scalpers?I don't think hypocritical is the right word but I see what you are saying. I know scalping is wrong, I dont like it but I'm not one of those people who thinks I can change the world myself and I'm not going to miss a show to take a moral stance that will not change a thing.
In fact, by pruchasing tickets over face value, you are in fact actively supporting the scalping business. It's greed on both sides. Greed from the scalpers taking advantage of fans who got shutout, and greed from the fans who NEED to get into a certain show.
Two minutes after I buy that ticket I'm ready to enjoy the show and the cost was worth it to mee.
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@BigPimpinNYC said: @me_no_are_no_nice_guy said:Yeah, so everything is peachy as long as you end up happy.Isn't it hypocritical, if you're a purchaser of over face tickets, to then bitch about scalpers? In fact, by pruchasing tickets over face value, you are in fact actively supporting the scalping business. It's greed on both sides. Greed from the scalpers taking advantage of fans who got shutout, and greed from the fans who NEED to get into a certain show.I don't think hypocritical is the right word but I see what you are saying. I know scalping is wrong, I dont like it but I'm not one of those people who thinks I can change the world myself and I'm not going to miss a show to take a moral stance that will not change a thing. Two minutes after I buy that ticket I'm ready to enjoy the show and the cost was worth it to mee.
Hypocritical is the exact right word.
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When you're a custy.
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I think scalping a ticket is a terribly greedy thing to do, which is why I would never do it. It's also capitalism, pure and simple, which is one of the reasons why it will never go away, at least not completely. And yes, I think it's mostly hypocritical to pay over face and then complain about scalping.I do think, though, that it is always OK to complain about the professional scalpers who employ bots to game the system and acquire massive amounts of tickets. That creates a competitive disadvantage and makes it very much not a "free market." If legislation were passed, and professional scalpers were aggressively prosecuted, a lot of this problem would go away.
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@TheEmu said: It's also capitalism, pure and simple,Disagree. That gives capitalism a bad name.
In capitalism, private owners take a set of resources, apply labor/skill/knowledge to add value or create something new, then take a profit.
There is no element of added value in these transactions.
Profiteering does not equal capitalism, even if it may be "human nature" and subject to "supply and demand."
Phrases like "hijacking," "rackateering," and "exploiting scarcity," are more appropriate than "capitalism."
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Well, there is no element of added value to a collector or antique dealer, either, @johnnyd, though I would grant that those are different than scalping a ticket as well.As far as giving capitalism a bad name, well, I would argue that there are plenty of ugly aspects to capitalism.
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@TheEmu said: Agreed, of course. And implied in a tongue-in-cheek way in how I initially phrased that.
As far as giving capitalism a bad name, well, I would argue that there are plenty of ugly aspects to capitalism.
Regarding the antique dealer example, I'd say that the value they add is going out and finding all this stuff and putting it in one place where potential buyers can easily find, compare, and evaluate it is adding value. But the whole field of collectibles is hazy ground for me on how one would define it. Studies of economic theory are way too far in my past for me to make an argument that I'd definitely stand behind.
I will assert that "buy low sell high" in and of itself does not necessarily constitute capitalism.
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@johnnyd said: @TheEmu said:All solid points. And I missed the tongue-in-cheek. When are we going to come up with that sarcasm font?Agreed, of course. And implied in a tongue-in-cheek way in how I initially phrased that.
As far as giving capitalism a bad name, well, I would argue that there are plenty of ugly aspects to capitalism.
Regarding the antique dealer example, I'd say that the value they add is going out and finding all this stuff and putting it in one place where potential buyers can easily find, compare, and evaluate it is adding value. But the whole field of collectibles is hazy ground for me on how one would define it. Studies of economic theory are way too far in my past for me to make an argument that I'd definitely stand behind.
I will assert that "buy low sell high" in and of itself does not necessarily constitute capitalism.
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I'm not judging you.
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@easywind111 said: I paid $100 for one night Hampton 09. I didn't feel bad. I felt like it was a really good deal. It was for the Sunday night show.$100 was a steal for that show. I saw a dude standing on a huge rock out front offering $5000 for a ticket to night one. He had it in his hand and was waving it around and everything.
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