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What is the ratio of legend shows that you have seen, against the total number of shows you have seen? Legend show being described as any show that people keep talking about for months/years after its occurrence. Determining which 2012 shows fit this criteria is difficult, since they happened less than 6 months ago, but justify your claim as well as you can.For example, my ratio is 2:5. I have seen 30 Phish shows, and 12 have been legend shows, which is two out of every five.
My legend shows were:
8/16/97
8/17/97
12/6/97
4/2/98
4/3/98
8/1/98
8/3/98
7/11/00
6/3/11
6/4/11
6/23/12
6/28/12
6/29/12, 11/19/97, and 8/10/97 didn't quite make the cut IMO, but if they were included, they would bring my ratio to a ridiculous 1:2. Throw in 8/14/97, and I am better than 50/50.
What other band can you say you have a 50/50 chance of witnessing a legend show at any given time?
Discuss
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I actually liked 8/2/98 better than 8/1 and 8/10 more than probably 1/4 of your list. Melt and cities...
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I view 8/16/97 as more of a Scottie Pippen type show - which is not meant to be disrespectful to either the show or Pippen. Another way to think about it...how would 8/16 be ranked if it were a random show during the summer?
I was at the Deer Creek shows this year and my prediction is those shows will not hold up well over the long run. Star Lake I predict will though and perhaps parts of Cincinnati, Blossom, and AV N2 although perhaps not more than the DC shows.
I was at the Deer Creek shows this year and my prediction is those shows will not hold up well over the long run. Star Lake I predict will though and perhaps parts of Cincinnati, Blossom, and AV N2 although perhaps not more than the DC shows.
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@MiguelSanchez said: I actually liked 8/2/98 better than 8/1I can understand that. It was hard for me to decide between them, but Rhinocerous, Mikes > Esther > Groove and Been Caught Stealing tipped the scales for me.
This was a difficult list for me. For example, I didn't include 11/19/97, and it had a four song second set that included the one thing that always makes me happy (20+ min 2001). *shrug*
You, however, are making my point for me.
@ekstewie1441 said:
I view 8/16/97 as more of a Scottie Pippen type show - which is not meant to be disrespectful to either the show or Pippen. Another way to think about it...how would 8/16 be ranked if it were a random show during the summer?Any three set show that showed up randomly that summer would have been legend, and any show that had that 2nd set would have as well.
I was at the Deer Creek shows this year and my prediction is those shows will not hold up well over the long run. Star Lake I predict will though and perhaps parts of Cincinnati, Blossom, and AV N2 although perhaps not more than the DC shows.
6/28/12 was the 2nd best Deer Creek show I have seen, personally.
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I wouldn't count 11/19 either. Good. Interesting. Not legend.
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6/27/10 1/1/11 7/2/11 6/23/12 8/31/12 9/2/12
I guess thats 6/38 about 1:6
I guess thats 6/38 about 1:6
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@deBebbler, holy crap, you are LUCKY! You got allll of those awesome shows, 08/10/97, the first Curtain (With) since 1988, 11/11/98's Halley's Comet, AND the 2nd set of 12/02/99. I mean, holy shit dude!Edit: Reading further, you're really lucky with those jammed Halley's Comets too...
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More than many. Less than some. Thread is completely subjective.
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Probably zero here. Only seen 7 shows though. Maybe 8/9/04, but for different reasons than the thread is going for, and possibly Charlottesville '09 for "The Naked Guy", but again, kind of the same deal. Was forced to skip a few that would probably fit the criteria too. Which sucks, but really nothing I could do. When it comes down to it, all 7 are legendary to me b/c I was there witnessing my favorite band.
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@jerryguscia said: @deBebbler, holy crap, you are LUCKY! You got allll of those awesome shows, 08/10/97, the first Curtain (With) since 1988, 11/11/98's Halley's Comet, AND the 2nd set of 12/02/99. I mean, holy shit dude!And 12/02 was the only show I hit in '99, too. What can I say? Maybe its just a benefit of living Midwestern.
I'm looking forward to spinning that show this Sunday night with a glass of the 18 year old Jameson my brother gave me for my birthday.
@jerryguscia said:
Edit: Reading further, you're really lucky with those jammed Halley's Comets too...And jammed Gumbos and 2001s and Gins and on and on and on.
It does help me to put 8/11/09 in perspective, lol. When you realize you only have one show to bitch about, you should probably not complain too much.
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I am legend
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tough to say what is a legend show in recent years, but ill take a stab at justifying my choices
12/30/99
12/31/99
7/11/00 (moby dick)
2/26/03 (debatable: yem opener, solo songs, notable maze and moma)
8/2/03
8/3/03
8/14/09 (gamhenge heavy show, psycho killer, catapult, icculus)
11/29/09 (-7 and ghost superjam)
6/19/10 (double tweeprise)
12/28/10 (most talked about hood of 3.0)
7/2/11
7/3/11
6/7/12 (dcu n1)
7/6/12 (spac1)
7/8/12 (spac3)
a 1:3 ratio. not bad
12/30/99
12/31/99
7/11/00 (moby dick)
2/26/03 (debatable: yem opener, solo songs, notable maze and moma)
8/2/03
8/3/03
8/14/09 (gamhenge heavy show, psycho killer, catapult, icculus)
11/29/09 (-7 and ghost superjam)
6/19/10 (double tweeprise)
12/28/10 (most talked about hood of 3.0)
7/2/11
7/3/11
6/7/12 (dcu n1)
7/6/12 (spac1)
7/8/12 (spac3)
a 1:3 ratio. not bad
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This thread is a bit too subjective, no?
A "legend" show might not be the best term. Island tour is legendary... I believe dicks 12 will be talked about in a similar manner. NYE 95...
I don't mean to poop on anyone's parade or the thread. Maybe there just needs to be a better definition of what fits into the category.
A "legend" show might not be the best term. Island tour is legendary... I believe dicks 12 will be talked about in a similar manner. NYE 95...
I don't mean to poop on anyone's parade or the thread. Maybe there just needs to be a better definition of what fits into the category.
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I agree with @Oblivious_Fool People's opinions are going to differ. If I eliminate my own personal feelings toward some of the shows I went to (for example, I'm not going to include Vernon Downs. It's talked about and known as an awesome show, but I don't see it come up in many top 10 lists. And I may not include any 3.0 shows) and just list the shows I think come up often for whatever reason or generally considered 'elegendary', here's my list... 12/9/95 Albany
8/16-17/96 Clifford Ball
8/16-17/97 Went
11/29/97 Worcester (Runaway Jam)
4/4/98 Island
11/27/98 Wipeout Worcester
7/10/99 Camden
12/31/99 Cypress
2/28/03 Nassau
11/28/09 just cause the seven below/ghost is talked about (I actually lean toward NOT including this show)
Shows I didn't list that I f&%$ing love. Others will agree with me on these shows as awesome, but they don't belong on a 'legend' list I don't think... I don't know. whatever.
11/28/97 Worcester
12/12-13/97 Albany
Vernon Downs
All 98 Worcester shows
Great Woods 99
Hartford 00
Essex
SPAC 12
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@GrooveHolmes said: More than many. Less than some. Thread is completely subjective.Legend in my own mind...
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In my subjective interpretation of "legend" I'd say the following would fit:1997.8.17
1998.4.5
1999.7.10
1999.12.11
There are several that I would place as "notable" just below "legend":
1997.8.16
1997.12.2
1996.12.29
1995.12.2
1995.12.11
2003.7.30/31
SBIX
2012.6.15
So, "legend ratio" would be 4:43 or 9.3%.
Ratio for "notable or better" would be 13/43 or 30.2%.
FUN!!!!!
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I suppose you could look at how the band feels about the shows.I was at 7/8/00 which was released as Live Phish 5 and 8/14/10 which was released on DVD.
I've seen shows though that I thought were more legendary than each of those that haven't made it to official release.
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We already have a crowd-sourcing metric for legendary shows: the star rankings on the shows. Although the metric has been alleged to be skewed upward during 3.0, a large enough sample size will eventually remove the random component associated with any one persons judgment of legendary, particularly as the "3.0 only" people get more depth. There's also some debate about rating a show based solely on a recording, but that doesn't seem so bad to me; I didn't see the Island Run, but it's clear that the band was at a peak. So, how about defining "legendary" as, say, the top 5% of ranked shows that had at least 30 people ranking (30 takes care of the small sample problem, though it doesn't remove the 3.0 bias)? Or is that too geeky?
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Very jealous of everyone in this thread.8/14/97 - legendary silliness
10/31/10 - this won't ever happen again
12/31/11 - legendary disappointment (let the -1's begin)
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Yea...I think my definition of legendary shows might be too strict. But my list:11/21 & 22/1997 - Hampton, VA - when I think of Phish at their finest, I think of these two shows.
11/20 & 21/1998 - Hampton, VA - The band thought enough of them to release Hampton Comes Alive.
12/31/1999 - Florida - self-explanatory
12/30/97 - MSG - Harpua - greatest encore of all time IMHO.
2/28/03 - Nassau Coliseum - Has anyone ever heard about this rarely-mentioned show?
8/14/09 - Hartford, CT - I do consider this a legendary show. It was the first time I truly believed they were back fo' real. And the Phish world seems to agree for the most part that it was a truly standout show.
1/1/11 - MSG - Amazing setlist, amazing date, amazing playing....I put this is epic territory.
After much debate - I have decided not to count the halloween show I was at (2010), but to count the three other NYE shows - deciding that NYE shows are a huge part of this band's history and lore.
Also erred on excluding 2 dick's shows - I am undecided on their epic-ness.
so 12/53 - 22.6% legendary (again, IMHO)
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11 shows seen the following get mentioned often/on occasionCommonly referred to as "Camden Sand"
so 2/11.
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Clearly very subjectiveNo-Brainer (IMO)
12/29/95-Real Gin, Bass Duel
12/30/95- HOOD
12/31/95- No explanation required
11/13/97- Vegas Stash
7/15/1998- Live Phish 17
7/17/98- 2001> Mikes Groove
10/30/98- Antelope, Stash> Manteca> Tweezer
10/31/98- Loaded, Wolfmans-> Piper> Ghost
9/30/2000- First Haiatus Announcement
Notable (not necassarily for the best)
Red Rocks 96
Vegas 2004
Gorge 1997 First Shows there (I guess notable to me)
9/59 for my Legendary shows 15%
16/59 for Notable or above 27%
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6/3/11 and 6/4/11 are not legend shows. 6/23/12 is not a legend show, nor is 6/28/12 though it was good. If those are "legend" shows, 80% of all Phish shows are legend (90% of 1.0 and 2.0, and around half of 3.0).
This thread is way too subjective. Whomever saw the best 1.0 and 2.0 shows wins. And because I like to win stupid contests, I saw:
12/2/95
11/26/97
12/30/97
11/27/98
12/31/98
12/31/99
7/1/00
7/4/00
2/28/03
8/2/03
8/3/03
10/26/10
10/30/10
12/31/10
7/3/11
SPAC 12
etc.
This thread is way too subjective. Whomever saw the best 1.0 and 2.0 shows wins. And because I like to win stupid contests, I saw:
12/2/95
11/26/97
12/30/97
11/27/98
12/31/98
12/31/99
7/1/00
7/4/00
2/28/03
8/2/03
8/3/03
10/26/10
10/30/10
12/31/10
7/3/11
SPAC 12
etc.
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@JayDubya said: I suppose you could look at how the band feels about the shows.Alpine 2000 came to my mind too when I initially thought about this thread.
I was at 7/8/00 which was released as Live Phish 5 and 8/14/10 which was released on DVD.
I've seen shows though that I thought were more legendary than each of those that haven't made it to official release.
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ive hit all but one live album live and the parking lot jams clifford ball and Indiana state univ. so im pretty stacked........
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Alright, I'm bored enough @ work to bite on this thread. My cut off for "legendary status" is pretty stringent. I left some off that others may have included. If you feel inclined, you can check my stats to see what didn't make the cut...8/13/96 great from top to bottom. See slave, divided, and mikes
12/6/97- set 2
12/29/98 from limb to Yem is brilliant
8/2-3/98 the best 2 night run I've seen- ghost, gumbo, Halley's, Bowie
7/25/99- whipping post, boaf-> walk, great antelope
7/11/2000 there's about 5-10 shows I've seen that I like better but it's the Moby dick show...
7/3/11 killer killer killer 1st set
8/76 10.5%
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I mean really. As a baseline, what % of all phish shows would we consider legendary? Or what's an approximate # of shows?
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@SicMD said: ive hit all but one live album live and the parking lot jams clifford ball and Indiana state univ. so im pretty stacked........That 2nd lot jam was at Indiana university, not Indiana state. Terre haute is a shit hole. I would ponder not going there even if phish were playing.
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throw in manchester, essex, it, oswego,Clifford B, and im balls to the walls deeper than most of the plebions im surounded by....
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@johnnyd said: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRnpn4cJCLcThis is a good question. We need to assemble a blue ribbon committee to hammer this out and make a rock solid list. I'm tired of this subjective shit!! Haha
I mean really. As a baseline, what % of all phish shows would we consider legendary? Or what's an approximate # of shows?
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thanks ben your right. Indiana univ.......
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@SicMD said: throw in manchester, essex, it, oswego,Clifford B, and im balls to the walls deeper than most of the plebions im surounded by....Except, out of that list, I'd only mark Clifford ball. Pull out a bit there good buddy.
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Also ben, indiana was before Clifford ball so indiana would be the first lot jam
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im such a smart asse
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No, essex being a locals only vt benifit, manchester being just sooo 3.0 epic , oswego with del mcoury, IT with the latenight tower jam,,,, those would be in fact legendary
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oh and 1/1/11.. that too was legendary........
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and i never pull out.......
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@SicMD said: Also ben, indiana was before Clifford ball so indiana would be the first lot jamI was referencing the order you typed them. I'm a smart ass too.
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@SicMD said: No, essex being a locals only vt benifit, manchester being just sooo 3.0 epic , oswego with del mcoury, IT with the latenight tower jam,,,, those would be in fact legendaryI'll concede it. That fest was sick. If Oswego makes for del, then Antioch 2000 has to too. I thought del and company's guest spot was just as good there. I thumbs down both. Essex...hmm. Manchester and 1/1/11 are good/great, don't know about legendary. To each their own.
Good times...
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Also, @SicMDNo love for 6/10/95?! I skimmed your stats...
That's my all time hands down favorite mikes> hydro> paugh. Legendary!!
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@SicMD said: throw in manchester, essex, it, oswego,Clifford B, and im balls to the walls deeper than most of the plebions im surounded by....*plebeians
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People are throwing "legendary" around lightly. I'd say out of the 40 shows I've seen 1 has been "legendary", 8/31/12.
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@conradjohansen said: People are throwing "legendary" around lightly. I'd say out of the 40 shows I've seen 1 has been "legendary", 8/31/12.i agree whole-heartlessly w/ the 1st part. Looking at your stats, I'd say 7/3/11 makes the cut, IMO.
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@conradjohansen said: People are throwing "legendary" around lightly. I'd say out of the 40 shows I've seen 1 has been "legendary", 8/31/12.I'd agree that, so far, there has been an inclusionary take on what constitutes "legendary". Of the 4 I put up, I could be talked into excluding 2 of those (the '99 shows).
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sure, love every ones opinion. but for me legendary is more than set lists. example essex... yes red rocks was an epic night. but all night i kept thinking have to make it to east coast for dead tour and i better get a ride out of this place...... HE HE... i believe it was an epic melt face night too.......
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@SicMD said: sure, love every ones opinion. but for me legendary is more than set lists. example essex... yes red rocks was an epic night. but all night i kept thinking have to make it to east coast for dead tour and i better get a ride out of this place...... HE HE... i believe it was an epic melt face night too.......'95 phish vs '95 dead... Your decision making was not legendary
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OK - in my opinion, legend notes a select few shows in the band's history (11/15/95, 12/31/95, most of Fall 97, Cypress, etc.)- it's also hard to say, but going off consensus and my own ears, I would have to say out of the 20 shows I have seen, only one was legendary. My first. 12/29/96. It's really not talked about a lot and there isn't really a nice recording of it, but the YEM rotation jam and Harpua to end the second set was one of a kind. I though all future shows would be like that. I have seen a lot of great notable shows though, with 12/3/97, 7/10/99, and 7/31/03 standing out to me as community agreed great shows. Nothing I've seen in 3.0 is the stuff of legend, although I really enjoyed the "Saw It Again" set II at MPP in 2010. I think it's the best I saw in 3.0 out of the 4 shows I have seen.Oh wait, is Lemonwheel considered stuff of legend, because I was there and thought it was great - particularly 8/15.
Sincerely,
Dosque
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Some of you are working way too hard to understand this. For the purposes of this thread, Legend Show was explained to be the following...@deBebbler said:
legend show being described as any show that people keep talking about for months/years after its occurrence. Determining which 2012 shows fit this criteria is difficult, since they happened less than 6 months ago, but justify your claim as well as you can.It is simply a show that people keep talking about for a long time to come. You know, something that adds to the Phish legend. The show does not have to be the second coming of Christ. Those are what are called Epic shows.
Try again.
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@deBebbler said: Some of you are working way too hard to understand this. For the purposes of this thread, Legend Show was explained to be the following... @deBebbler said:Fair enough. Taking this definition of "legendary", perhaps someone could write a data mining program that goes through the forum archives and tabulates the number of times each show is mentioned and date on which it was mentioned. Then some algorithm could be developed to calculate a "legendary status score" for each show. It would factor in the total number of mentions, how long after the show it was mentioned, and perhaps some additional weighting factor to account for the increased chatter about recent shows during tour season.legend show being described as any show that people keep talking about for months/years after its occurrence. Determining which 2012 shows fit this criteria is difficult, since they happened less than 6 months ago, but justify your claim as well as you can.It is simply a show that people keep talking about for a long time to come. You know, something that adds to the Phish legend. The show does not have to be the second coming of Christ. Those are what are called Epic shows. Try again.
Further, the program could interface with each user's show statistics and automatically calculate a legendary show ratio based on some agreed-upon cutoff point for labeling a show "legendary."
I don't have the required skills to write this program, but it would be interesting to fine-tune the algorithm and see the results.
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^ Or perhaps instead of calculating a ratio of legendary to non-legendary shows for each user, it would be more interesting to have this hypothetical program provide an average "legendary status score" for each user. Hell, with the data gathered and scores assigned to each show, you could report any type of statistical information you want.
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