Most controversial Phish jams?

RR1994 11/30/12 3:58 pm

Over the years there have been a number of jams that some fans consider pure genius, and that others consider complete trash. A few of the ones that I can think of off the top of my head are the A Live One Tweezer, 10/31/98 Wolfman's, IT 46 days, and the 11/17/97 YEM.

I always thought it was kind of an interesting topic. Any other really fan-dividing jams out there?

Score: 1

Sprachtor 11/30/12 4:01 pm

2-28-03 Tweezer.

Most over-hyped piece of music to my ears that Phish has ever created.

Score: 4

RR1994 11/30/12 4:03 pm

@Sprachtor said:

2-28-03 Tweezer.

Most over-hyped piece of music to my ears that Phish has ever created.

I really like that one section in the middle of it where Trey gets the whole effect thing going, but I am not a huge fan of the other 20+ minutes.

Score: 0

sirhotpants 11/30/12 4:28 pm

I've been ripped on before for ranking on the Fleezer 6-22-95. Awful. Boring. Self-indulgent. Hands down the worst show because of that crap. People adore this jam; I was scarred by it.

And for the heck of it, I'll say that the _m9 jam that seemed to work its way into nearly every Fall '97 show, which is considered The Teets by most people around here, turned off my high school crew entirely. They'd shake their heads, like, 'what is this James Brown vamp bullshit all about?' and their interest in the band fizzled from then on. Consequently I wasn't into it much at the time but it grew on me. Like a pleasant fungus might. Glad I stuck with it.

**Disclaimer about both the cow funk era and the Fleezer jams: my buddies and I weren't into drugs at all, went to shows mainly sober.

Score: 0

_________________________ 11/30/12 4:32 pm

Bomb Factory

Score: 3

Slothberries 11/30/12 4:38 pm

@_________________________ said:

Bomb Factory

nothing controversial about the bomb factory. most people love it.

youve seen people hate on it?

Score: 0

_________________________ 11/30/12 4:44 pm

@Slothberries said:

@_________________________ said:
Bomb Factory
nothing controversial about the bomb factory. most people love it.

youve seen people hate on it?

Not necsarially hate, but not everyone thanks it deserves the acclaim it get s

Score: 0

johnnyd

11/30/12 4:45 pm

@Sprachtor said:

2-28-03 Tweezer.Most over-hyped piece of music to my ears that Phish has ever created.

I'll take a -5 on this one.

Score: 3

Super_Sash 11/30/12 4:49 pm

RE: BOMB FACTORY

weekapaugh shreds and there's horns...not sure why this would suck.

Score: 0

mfhgreyboy 11/30/12 4:49 pm

@Sprachtor said:

2-28-03 Tweezer.

Most over-hyped piece of music to my ears that Phish has ever created.

Perfect song for this thread. I happen to enjoy it quite a bit.

Score: 0

johnnyd

11/30/12 4:50 pm

@Slothberries said:

@_________________________ said:
Bomb Factory
nothing controversial about the bomb factory. most people love it.

youve seen people hate on it?

http://forum.phish.net/thread.php?thread=1314713088
I think there's another one too, even more polarized...

Score: 0

Jayem 11/30/12 4:51 pm

The Worcester Runaway Jim fits here.

@sirhotpants, I'm with you on a lot of the 97 funk jams. Fans are so quick to go to 97 at THE year for Phish, there are some amazing moments but a lot of it is boring and repetative IMO

Score: 2

johnnyd

11/30/12 4:51 pm

@johnnyd said:

@Sprachtor said:
2-28-03 Tweezer.Most over-hyped piece of music to my ears that Phish has ever created.
I'll take a -5 on this one.

And by this, I mean 2.28.2003 Tweezer is among the most divine pieces of music ever created anywhere. Ever.

Score: 8

MARCO_ESQUAND0LAS 11/30/12 4:52 pm

I almost feel apologetic about it, but I don't see all the hype behind 12/31/93 Hood. I think it's good, but...

Score: 3

mfhgreyboy 11/30/12 4:52 pm

@Slothberries said:

@_________________________ said:
Bomb Factory
nothing controversial about the bomb factory. most people love it.

youve seen people hate on it?

Interesting that neither phishows nor the spreadsheet have set I for this show.

Score: 0

Capricornio 11/30/12 4:54 pm

@Slothberries said:

@_________________________ said:
Bomb Factory
nothing controversial about the bomb factory. most people love it.

youve seen people hate on it?

I hate it. I'll never understand the hype for that set. I don't like most of the "segue fest" shows.

Score: 0

johnnyd

11/30/12 4:54 pm

@johnnyd said:

@Slothberries said:
@_________________________ said:
Bomb Factory
nothing controversial about the bomb factory. most people love it.

youve seen people hate on it?
http://forum.phish.net/thread.php?thread=1314713088
I think there's another one too, even more polarized...

A related thread:
http://forum.phish.net/thread.php?thread=1317350212

Score: 0

SconyMack 11/30/12 4:55 pm

or the IT Waves? I personally love it but I've heard a lot of negative things on here about it.

Score: 0

Sprachtor 11/30/12 5:03 pm

@MARCO_ESQUAND0LAS said:

I almost feel apologetic about it, but I don't see all the hype behind 12/31/93 Hood. I think it's good, but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z15ORtarX4

I am not even a "hood guy" and I love this piece. Hope this was some troll stuff.

Score: 1

RR1994 11/30/12 5:06 pm

@MARCO_ESQUAND0LAS said:

I almost feel apologetic about it, but I don't see all the hype behind 12/31/93 Hood. I think it's good, but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z15ORtarX4

IMO, it's all about the last 2-3 minutes of the jam. Honestly, I used to feel the same way about this hood though.

Score: 2

RR1994 11/30/12 5:07 pm

So what do you guys think about the fall 94' tweezers?

Score: 0

Sprachtor 11/30/12 5:09 pm

@RR1994 said:

So what do you guys think about the fall 94' tweezers?

Score: 5

_________________________ 11/30/12 5:10 pm

@Sprachtor said:

@MARCO_ESQUAND0LAS said:
I almost feel apologetic about it, but I don't see all the hype behind 12/31/93 Hood. I think it's good, but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z15ORtarX4
I am not even a "hood guy" and I love this piece. Hope this was some troll stuff.

So it's not all hood?

Score: 1

spaced 11/30/12 5:12 pm

11/30/97 Wolfman's maybe? I'm not sure there's a ton of love for it, but that repetitive jam really rubs some people the wrong way.

re: Bomb Factory, I definitely wouldn't say it's "garbage," but it is kind of sloppy to my ears. I guess that's some of the fun for people, but Columbus and Big Birch from that summer do the "segue-fest" thing way, way better IMO.

Score: 0

Sprachtor 11/30/12 5:14 pm

@_________________________ said:

@Sprachtor said:
@MARCO_ESQUAND0LAS said:
I almost feel apologetic about it, but I don't see all the hype behind 12/31/93 Hood. I think it's good, but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z15ORtarX4
I am not even a "hood guy" and I love this piece. Hope this was some troll stuff.
So it's not all hood?

For me no. I like some Hood but it's not where my hopes and dreams rest.

Score: 0

listen4myHorn 11/30/12 5:16 pm

Alligator Song...most loved this, I thought it totally ruined the Che Hun Ta Mo experience. Completely unnecessary. But whatever, my .02.

Score: 0

FunkyCFunkyDo 11/30/12 5:16 pm

@johnnyd said:

2.28.2003 Tweezer is among the most divine pieces of music ever created anywhere. Ever.

^ This.

My over-coddled jams:

IT Chalkdust (meandering and inconsequential)
Worcester Jim (save minute-15 through minute-22)
12.30.09 Back on the Train (decent, but doesn't come close to 2.28.03)
Tahoe Light (dark and scary, yes; good jam, no)
8.15.93 Stash (meh)
12.5.95/11.23.97 Gins (neither hold my attention for very long)

Score: 0

RR1994 11/30/12 5:21 pm

@FunkyCFunkyDo said:

@johnnyd said:
2.28.2003 Tweezer is among the most divine pieces of music ever created anywhere. Ever.
^ This.

My over-coddled jams:

IT Chalkdust (meandering and inconsequential)
Worcester Jim (save minute-15 through minute-22)
12.30.09 Back on the Train (decent, but doesn't come close to 2.28.03)
Tahoe Light (dark and scary, yes; good jam, no)
8.15.93 Stash (meh)
12.5.95/11.23.97 Gins (neither hold my attention for very long)

I agree with your list, except for 12/30/09 BOTT.

Score: 0

RovingReporter 11/30/12 5:27 pm

@Jayem said:

The Worcester Runaway Jim fits here.

@sirhotpants, I'm with you on a lot of the 97 funk jams. Fans are so quick to go to 97 at THE year for Phish, there are some amazing moments but a lot of it is boring and repetative IMO

I hate the Worcester Jim. I also think Fleezer, as you Phish people call it, is highly overrated.

Score: 0

Slothberries 11/30/12 5:30 pm

@RovingReporter said:

@Jayem said:
The Worcester Runaway Jim fits here.

@sirhotpants, I'm with you on a lot of the 97 funk jams. Fans are so quick to go to 97 at THE year for Phish, there are some amazing moments but a lot of it is boring and repetative IMO
I hate the Worcester Jim. I also think Fleezer, as you Phish people call it, is highly overrated.

Not a fan of the Worcester Jim either. Its too long and not good enough. A perfect example of "Not all long jams are great jams".

Score: 0

MiguelSanchez 11/30/12 5:39 pm

@RovingReporter said:

@Jayem said:
The Worcester Runaway Jim fits here.

@sirhotpants, I'm with you on a lot of the 97 funk jams. Fans are so quick to go to 97 at THE year for Phish, there are some amazing moments but a lot of it is boring and repetative IMO
I hate the Worcester Jim. I also think Fleezer, as you Phish people call it, is highly overrated.

I love the Jim but I can't stand the fleezer. I think the mud island version is pretty mediocre too.

Score: 1

MiguelSanchez 11/30/12 5:41 pm

@Slothberries said:

@_________________________ said:
Bomb Factory
nothing controversial about the bomb factory. most people love it.

youve seen people hate on it?

I like the bomb factory for what it meant as a turning point in phish's playing. I'll take the tweezers that came later '94 all day long over the bomb factory though.

Score: 0

MiguelSanchez 11/30/12 5:42 pm

@johnnyd said:

@johnnyd said:
@Sprachtor said:
2-28-03 Tweezer.Most over-hyped piece of music to my ears that Phish has ever created.
I'll take a -5 on this one.
And by this, I mean 2.28.2003 Tweezer is among the most divine pieces of music ever created anywhere. Ever.

And the truth lies somewhere in between...

Score: 1

Slothberries 11/30/12 5:45 pm

@MiguelSanchez said:

@Slothberries said:
@_________________________ said:
Bomb Factory
nothing controversial about the bomb factory. most people love it.

youve seen people hate on it?
I like the bomb factory for what it meant as a turning point in phish's playing. I'll take the tweezers that came later '94 all day long over the bomb factory though.

I agree with you 100%. But i dont think the idea is to compare the bomb factory to other tweezers.

Score: 1

Superballin 11/30/12 5:47 pm

@Sprachtor said:

@RR1994 said:
So what do you guys think about the fall 94' tweezers?

If I ever saw a door with that sign on it, there is no doubt in my mind that I would open it immediately.

Score: 3

Superballin 11/30/12 5:53 pm

Back to the thread. I wasn't sold on Long Beach RnR. Not that much going on.

Score: 0

n00b100 11/30/12 6:01 pm

This has sort of turned into "most overrated Phish jam", which is understandable mainly because that's just easier to discuss and it's harder to figure out which jams people are actually legitimately torn on (with a few exceptions, essentially all listed above). For my money, though, the 11/19/97 Wolfman's Brother has garnered some wildly divergent opinions, some of which are noted on the show's page itself, and all due to the weird mid-jam YOLO (sorry) moment Trey has that completely changes the complexion of the jam (and forces the band to adopt to whatever the hell he's doing). Either you're okay with that because you really enjoy what comes next, or you're bugged by the crazy noise and turned off by the rest of the jam (or, I suppose, you're somewhere in between, like myself). That's the one jam off the top of the dome that's garnered that kind of opinion.

Most controversial SHOWS, that's a whole different ball of wax. Lookin' at you, Guyutica!

Score: 3

FunkyCFunkyDo 11/30/12 6:04 pm

@Superballin said:

Back to the thread. I wasn't sold on Long Beach RnR. Not that much going on.

I reject your reality and insert my own. Long Beach RnR is amazing.

Score: 5

MiguelSanchez 11/30/12 6:06 pm

@Slothberries said:

@MiguelSanchez said:
@Slothberries said:
@_________________________ said:
Bomb Factory
nothing controversial about the bomb factory. most people love it.

youve seen people hate on it?
I like the bomb factory for what it meant as a turning point in phish's playing. I'll take the tweezers that came later '94 all day long over the bomb factory though.
I agree with you 100%. But i dont think the idea is to compare the bomb factory to other tweezers.

True dat. I was just thinking in terms of it being "one of the greatest ever." It is very important though.

Score: 0

mgh2001 11/30/12 6:08 pm

@Sprachtor said:

2-28-03 Tweezer.

Most over-hyped piece of music to my ears that Phish has ever created.

Score: 0

MiguelSanchez 11/30/12 6:14 pm

@RR1994 said:

So what do you guys think about the fall 94' tweezers?

Fall 94 tweezers give me hope for a better tomorrow. They are a high point in the collective history of improvised music. Listen to @tebowie. He is wise.

Score: 3

johnnyd

11/30/12 6:20 pm

@Superballin said:

Back to the thread. I wasn't sold on Long Beach RnR. Not that much going on.

Coupled with the Ghost, top jam of 2012.
Go figure.

Edit: and by "top" I mean "my personal favorite", of course

Score: 4

MiguelSanchez 11/30/12 6:23 pm

@Sprachtor said:

@MARCO_ESQUAND0LAS said:
I almost feel apologetic about it, but I don't see all the hype behind 12/31/93 Hood. I think it's good, but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z15ORtarX4
I am not even a "hood guy" and I love this piece. Hope this was some troll stuff.

I'm with you. Hood isn't a song that I ever root for, but when it delivers... Oh baby.

12/31/93, 12/30/95, and woostah '10 come to mind. Hey, I see a pattern there...

Score: 1

Phishin90 11/30/12 6:23 pm

I am going to throw out the Crosseyed and Painless from 11/2/1996.
Maybe not controversial, as almost everyone I've heard loves it. Not me. Most overated song ever.

Score: 2

Sprachtor 11/30/12 6:25 pm

@MiguelSanchez said:

@Sprachtor said:
@MARCO_ESQUAND0LAS said:
I almost feel apologetic about it, but I don't see all the hype behind 12/31/93 Hood. I think it's good, but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z15ORtarX4
I am not even a "hood guy" and I love this piece. Hope this was some troll stuff.
I'm with you. Hood isn't a song that I ever root for, but when it delivers... Oh baby.

12/31/93, 12/30/95, and woostah '10 come to mind. Hey, I see a pattern there...

Me and you were cut from the same Phish cloth. I would have to search long and hard to find a comment of yours I disagree with.

Score: 1

MiguelSanchez 11/30/12 6:26 pm

@RR1994

I'm w/ you on the 10/31/98 wolfmans. Not my bag. Also, I remember tons of ppl dogging on it after the Halloween run. Time has been too friendly to that set...

Score: 0

MiguelSanchez 11/30/12 6:28 pm

@spaced said:

11/30/97 Wolfman's maybe? I'm not sure there's a ton of love for it, but that repetitive jam really rubs some people the wrong way.

re: Bomb Factory, I definitely wouldn't say it's "garbage," but it is kind of sloppy to my ears. I guess that's some of the fun for people, but Columbus and Big Birch from that summer do the "segue-fest" thing way, way better IMO.

Now, this wolfmans is a curveball w/ heat!! I love it

Score: 0

MiguelSanchez 11/30/12 6:32 pm

It's not really a jam, but what about the Moby dick show. It was a blast live, all f***ed up in the lower pavilion, but I don't think it's interesting musically. Alas, I rarely give it a relisten. Back to hood though, I did enjoy this one.

Score: 0

Phishin90 11/30/12 6:33 pm

@MiguelSanchez said:

@RR1994 I'm w/ you on the 10/31/98 wolfmans. Not my bag. Also, I remember tons of ppl dogging on it after the Halloween run. Time has been too friendly to that set...

Love the different opinions here.

I absolutely loved the Wolfmans, but I was there and primed for it. Although, I don't often replay this one.

Score: 0

Sprachtor 11/30/12 6:35 pm

The Wolfmans 10/31/98 and the Island Tour Twist have a lot in common. I do agree it was a have to be there kind of jam. I still am able to appreciate it.

Score: 0