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So my buddy and I were talking last night about what the best jam from the NYE run was...I think it's pretty clear the Tweezer, Disease, and Carini are the top three and you might be able to throw the Wolfmans in that group. To me the Carini is the best of the run, so damn dark and exploratory and as @bostonron pointed out it doesn't sound like any jams they've done in the past. However my buddy feels strongly that the DwD takes the cake and while I don't agree I don't completely disagree either, the last two minutes of that jam...holy sh*t it's impossible not to nod your head to that. And then there's the Tweezer...
So .net what do which of the jams scratches that sweet spot for you and what about the jam does it? I don't think there's a right answer just curious...
Score: 1
I think the Tweezer is No. 1 and Carini No. 2, but I don't think either of these make the top 10 list of 2012.
The DWD just never gets to a place that does it for me -- I've heard a lot better DWDs in 3.0 alone.
The DWD just never gets to a place that does it for me -- I've heard a lot better DWDs in 3.0 alone.
Score: 1
@ProfPhan you are out of your mind... but to each his own.I say Carini was/is one of the best jams of 3.0 and clearly the best of the run.
Score: 5
Having only been at the 28th I enjoyed the Wolfmans and the Tweezer> maze> twist best! Wish I were at all four and had a more balanced opinion! The Carini sounds really good! I still haven't had a chance to give the run as a hole a listen!
Score: 1
@Jimmymac03 said:
Those songs have musical narratives that ebb and flow and build and reach a crescendo. Carini was good but not that good.
@ProfPhan you are out of your mind... but to each his own.I think most would agree that Carini is not even in the conversation for Best of 3.0, especially weighed against things like Light 9/1/12, DWD 6/3/11 and BDTNL 8/16/09.
I say Carini was/is one of the best jams of 3.0 and clearly the best of the run.
Those songs have musical narratives that ebb and flow and build and reach a crescendo. Carini was good but not that good.
Score: 0
I rarely use "best" to describe any Phish jam. It's all subjective. But Carini is clearly, head and shoulders the best jam from the new years run. Not only is it the best from last weekend, it's probably one of, if not the best, jam from 3.0. People will have their own opinions, of course. And no one os wrong. Personally, I just don't even see this as an argument. Carini is a jam that will stand up against any jam in Phishs career. Absolutely groundbreaking. DWD, Tweezer and even Wolfmans are among some of the "best" jams from 3.0 as well. MSG 2012 killed.
Score: 5
In fact I will say that Carini did absolutely nothing for a quite a while, in fact, the jam actually dies around the 9 min mark, and no one seems to know what to do.
Fishman starts phasing in and out of that beat, and then the rest of boys pick up on it and then it's straight sickness for the final 4 minutes. And that riff that Trey starts at 13:36 is so DOPE, but why doesn't he keep it going?
I need the whole song to make sense -- to all flow like one cohesive story -- for me to anoint it "Best of" anything. And this Carini doesn't do it.
Fishman starts phasing in and out of that beat, and then the rest of boys pick up on it and then it's straight sickness for the final 4 minutes. And that riff that Trey starts at 13:36 is so DOPE, but why doesn't he keep it going?
I need the whole song to make sense -- to all flow like one cohesive story -- for me to anoint it "Best of" anything. And this Carini doesn't do it.
Score: 2
For me it's dead split between the DWD and the Carini. @ProfPhan - I think the Carini jam is packed with "ebb-and-flow". In fact, I would argue that it is entirely composed of it. Especially when Fishman resuscitates it with some driving kick-drum action. He brings it in, then backs off. Repeat. Then Mike catches on to it, laying down a fluid minor baseline over which Trey and Page layer simple but articulate melodies. Listening to it, it was like I was riding a horse across the desert. First at a gallop and then picking up the pace and charging headlong into some dark battle. Definite peak for me right there and even bookended by a gentle touch of major key resolution: the calm after the storm.
In some ways the Carini jam reminds me of a really good SOAMelt jam, with everybody playing a unique, yet intricately layered, parts. And yet it has a definite direction, I feel. I've taken to calling it a "molasses-jam", dark and slippery, sweetness with some bite to it.
I've been regurgitating this line all of .net today - The DWD was almost composed in its precise segues between unique movements. I'm a sucker for this kind of tight jamming. So for me, what the Carini brings in its uniqueness, the DWD matches with tightness. Hence, they're tied for #1 for me.
Props to the Wolfman's though for sure. If I had balls, I would like to dip them in it.
Score: 7
and fishman....on the kick drum....come come.....on the kick drum.....come fish....on the kick drum.....
Score: 5
Phish jams aren't just about length, but about girth. Two of my favorite jams of the year, the MSG Carini (there goes my hand tipped) and the Riverbend Twist, barely make up the length of your average '94 Tweezer when added together, but both of them are so rich and meaty in their jams (I think @ProfPhan is being a wee bit uncharitable re: the Carini jam; the Long Beach R&R -to give an example - has moments just like that where the jam seems to have reached its climax, but then somebody thinks of something else and things kick back into gear) that it hardly matters. What's contained in those < 15 minute jams are amazing. I like the 9/1/12 Light just fine, but not a single one of the jam segments within matches the power of the MSG Carini's final 5 minutes. That carries more weight with me.Bringing up the Disease Supreme also shows the fundamental problem with trying to debate jams (though let's not let that stop us from trying!). That jam is more or less pure bliss, with that aforementioned Acknowledgment jam the icing on the cake. The Carini jam is a submarine ride into a Breughel painting. How do you begin to compare that?
Score: 1
@bostonron said: I rarely use "best" to describe any Phish jam. It's all subjective. But Carini is clearly, head and shoulders the best jam from the new years run. Not only is it the best from last weekend, it's probably one of, if not the best, jam from 3.0. People will have their own opinions, of course. And no one os wrong. Personally, I just don't even see this as an argument. Carini is a jam that will stand up against any jam in Phishs career. Absolutely groundbreaking. DWD, Tweezer and even Wolfmans are among some of the "best" jams from 3.0 as well. MSG 2012 killed.If I ever make it to a Phish show and get to meet you, Ron, I'm giving you a high five that would put the Fun Bunch to shame.
Score: 2
Im gonna throw a curveball and call piper the best (or at least my favorite) jam of the run.
Score: 1
@n00b100 said:
But what I'm getting at, and I guess this is about me, about what I consider the buttery Creme de la Creme stuff, is that I can't put jams that have 3 or 4 or 5 minutes of bliss (with a bunch of wankery or awkwardness in between) ahead of stuff that has several movements, several jam sections (like the 9/1/12 Light) that all seem to gel.
It's the building on of soundscapes -- the musical narratives that make sense in my mind -- and the progression and the release of all of it that seals the deal for me.
So, while I think the final 4 minutes of Carini is awesome, it doesn't compare (for me) to things like the Cincy Twist, the 8/31/12 CDT, the SF Crosseyed> Light, SPAC Sally and Piper, and the aforementioned Light.
And it doesn't have to do with length. An 8 min song that soars is better than a 20 min song that just has 4 mins of bliss.
Phish jams aren't just about length, but about girth. Two of my favorite jams of the year, the MSG Carini (there goes my hand tipped) and the Riverbend Twist, barely make up the length of your average '94 Tweezer when added together, but both of them are so rich and meaty in their jams (I think @ProfPhan is being a wee bit uncharitable re: the Carini jam; the Long Beach R&R -to give an example - has moments just like that where the jam seems to have reached its climax, but then somebody thinks of something else and things kick back into gear) that it hardly matters. What's contained in those < 15 minute jams are amazing. I like the 9/1/12 Light just fine, but not a single one of the jam segments within matches the power of the MSG Carini's final 5 minutes. That carries more weight with me.Well done.
Bringing up the Disease Supreme also shows the fundamental problem with trying to debate jams (though let's not let that stop us from trying!). That jam is more or less pure bliss, with that aforementioned Acknowledgment jam the icing on the cake. The Carini jam is a submarine ride into a Breughel painting. How do you begin to compare that?
But what I'm getting at, and I guess this is about me, about what I consider the buttery Creme de la Creme stuff, is that I can't put jams that have 3 or 4 or 5 minutes of bliss (with a bunch of wankery or awkwardness in between) ahead of stuff that has several movements, several jam sections (like the 9/1/12 Light) that all seem to gel.
It's the building on of soundscapes -- the musical narratives that make sense in my mind -- and the progression and the release of all of it that seals the deal for me.
So, while I think the final 4 minutes of Carini is awesome, it doesn't compare (for me) to things like the Cincy Twist, the 8/31/12 CDT, the SF Crosseyed> Light, SPAC Sally and Piper, and the aforementioned Light.
And it doesn't have to do with length. An 8 min song that soars is better than a 20 min song that just has 4 mins of bliss.
Score: 1
@n00b100 - You're by far my favorite n00b. Careening (or, in this case, Carini-ing) headlong into Breughel painting = nerdiest, most awesome comparison yet.::noogies::
Score: 1
@n00b100 said: @bostonron said:Am I seeing this right? Have you never been to a show?I rarely use "best" to describe any Phish jam. It's all subjective. But Carini is clearly, head and shoulders the best jam from the new years run. Not only is it the best from last weekend, it's probably one of, if not the best, jam from 3.0. People will have their own opinions, of course. And no one os wrong. Personally, I just don't even see this as an argument. Carini is a jam that will stand up against any jam in Phishs career. Absolutely groundbreaking. DWD, Tweezer and even Wolfmans are among some of the "best" jams from 3.0 as well. MSG 2012 killed.If I ever make it to a Phish show and get to meet you, Ron, I'm giving you a high five that would put the Fun Bunch to shame.
Score: 0
@ProfPhan said: @n00b100 said:Totally fair. Honestly, you could think of the MSG Carini as a happy accident, a jam clearly meant to wind down around the 9 minute mark before Fish grabbed it by the throat and shook it back to life (with, I suppose, those other guys); I like where they were headed before that 9 minute mark, as well, and that combined with the final passage makes it an upper-echelon jam for me. I wouldn't begin to say it's better than either that Twist (my jam of the year) or the Chalk Dust, but everything else I think is up for debate. It's weird, I totally agree with you on how the Dick's Light developed, and yet I'm still not sold on it as the best jam of the year.Phish jams aren't just about length, but about girth. Two of my favorite jams of the year, the MSG Carini (there goes my hand tipped) and the Riverbend Twist, barely make up the length of your average '94 Tweezer when added together, but both of them are so rich and meaty in their jams (I think @ProfPhan is being a wee bit uncharitable re: the Carini jam; the Long Beach R&R -to give an example - has moments just like that where the jam seems to have reached its climax, but then somebody thinks of something else and things kick back into gear) that it hardly matters. What's contained in those < 15 minute jams are amazing. I like the 9/1/12 Light just fine, but not a single one of the jam segments within matches the power of the MSG Carini's final 5 minutes. That carries more weight with me.Well done.
Bringing up the Disease Supreme also shows the fundamental problem with trying to debate jams (though let's not let that stop us from trying!). That jam is more or less pure bliss, with that aforementioned Acknowledgment jam the icing on the cake. The Carini jam is a submarine ride into a Breughel painting. How do you begin to compare that?
But what I'm getting at, and I guess this is about me, about what I consider the buttery Creme de la Creme stuff, is that I can't put jams that have 3 or 4 or 5 minutes of bliss (with a bunch of wankery or awkwardness in between) ahead of stuff that has several movements, several jam sections (like the 9/1/12 Light) that all seem to gel.
It's the building on of soundscapes -- the musical narratives that make sense in my mind -- and the progression and the release of all of it that seals the deal for me.
So, while I think the final 4 minutes of Carini is awesome, it doesn't compare (for me) to things like the Cincy Twist, the 8/31/12 CDT, the SF Crosseyed> Light, SPAC Sally and Piper, and the aforementioned Light.
Score: 0
I hit 13 shows this summer (DCU 1, AC x3, JB x2, SPAC n1 and n2, Long Beach, MSG x4) and Carini was the best jam I saw the whole year. So it was obviously the best of the run in my opinion.Other great jams i saw in '12 that were not as good as 12/30/12 Carini
7/6 Sally
6/7 Carini > Taste > Ghost > Boogie On Reggae Woman (Amazing run)
6/15 Birds
7/3 Antelope
8/15 RnR > Ghost
Score: 0
@TheEmu, I've never made any secret of that. I really should have gone to Long Beach, but I ended up heading back to VA instead (it was after the bar, and I was still in decompression mode - you essentially head into bar study two days after law school graduation). Trust me, I saw that setlist and instantly regretted it. 2013's going to be the year, Lord/Buddha/Flying Spaghetti Monster willing.@ivy_light, aw, shucks. I like to think I'm a renaissance man (instead of a dork who just likes art).
Score: 1
@n00b100 said: The Carini jam is a submarine ride into a Breughel painting. How do you begin to compare that?No wonder our section looked like this at the end.
Score: 2
@TheEmu said: @n00b100 said:I lulzed at that. I'd have thought MSG would be more Bosch-esque (avert your eyes, you will not be able to unsee this):The Carini jam is a submarine ride into a Breughel painting. How do you begin to compare that?No wonder our section looked like this at the end.
http://putitup.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/bruegel-land-of-cockaigne-big-jpe3.jpg
Score: 3
As with most discussions of this sort, it's gonna come down to personal preference. What I think is a more interesting point to make note of is the variety of jamming we're getting nowadays. The MSG Carini was like adding a new weapon to the arsenal of tightly coordinated DWDs (MSG), resplendent cascading Lights (Dick's), Crosseyeds that venture out into space (BCGA), and funk-laden poppy 2001s (SPAC). It landed us all in a strange new land despite its meager beginnings. So it's special, perhaps?To each his own, but I think we might all agree that @n00b100's "girth" comment might be applied not only to what's going on within a given jam, but also the breadth of musical ground these guys seem to be covering recently across jams, within shows, throughout tours.
Score: 1
@n00b100 said: @TheEmu, I've never made any secret of that. I really should have gone to Long Beach, but I ended up heading back to VA instead (it was after the bar, and I was still in decompression mode - you essentially head into bar study two days after law school graduation). Trust me, I saw that setlist and instantly regretted it. 2013's going to be the year, Lord/Buddha/Flying Spaghetti Monster willing.Well, hells yeah, 2013 shall be the year. You will come to Dick's, hang at our place, and we shall rage. Right after I calmly explain why Nebraska was the 1997 National Champions of College Football.
@ivy_light, aw, shucks. I like to think I'm a renaissance man (instead of a dork who just likes art).
Score: 1
I would rank the top 3 in this order
Carini one of my favorite versions of all time
Tweezer best of 3.0 in my opinion great jam that comes to a glorious full band peak
DWD good jam top 3 of 3.0 for me up there with 6/3/11 and 8/16/11 the last 2 minutes as mentioned before are so groovy
It's so hard to pick a best version I think it really decided on what mood I'm in at the time
Carini one of my favorite versions of all time
Tweezer best of 3.0 in my opinion great jam that comes to a glorious full band peak
DWD good jam top 3 of 3.0 for me up there with 6/3/11 and 8/16/11 the last 2 minutes as mentioned before are so groovy
It's so hard to pick a best version I think it really decided on what mood I'm in at the time
Score: 0
Dwd & carini.
Score: 0
@TheEmu said: @n00b100 said:I'll take you up on the place/raging (well, as much as a sober gent can rage), and I'll wager a dollar that by the end of the trip it will be you recanting your sins and declaring Michigan the true national champion of the 1997 college football season. Or maybe we'll just have a knife fight over it or something.@TheEmu, I've never made any secret of that. I really should have gone to Long Beach, but I ended up heading back to VA instead (it was after the bar, and I was still in decompression mode - you essentially head into bar study two days after law school graduation). Trust me, I saw that setlist and instantly regretted it. 2013's going to be the year, Lord/Buddha/Flying Spaghetti Monster willing.Well, hells yeah, 2013 shall be the year. You will come to Dick's, hang at our place, and we shall rage. Right after I calmly explain why Nebraska was the 1997 National Champions of College Football.
@ivy_light, aw, shucks. I like to think I'm a renaissance man (instead of a dork who just likes art).
Score: 2
Anyone note the Smoke on the waterish sound gordo introduces around the 15:00 mark in tweezer.
4 amazing jams from NYE 12' , the boys continue to blow each and every on of our minds. Well said @Ron
4 amazing jams from NYE 12' , the boys continue to blow each and every on of our minds. Well said @Ron
Score: 0
Wolfmans ,DWD,Tweezer,CariniThe Wolfmans was just such a special moment.
Score: 1
Wolfmans rocked. I think it is in contention with the best from 3.0 with the AC Wolfmans.
Score: 0
@RunawayJoe said: Wolfmans ,DWD,Tweezer,Carini
The Wolfmans was just such a special moment.
Yeah I try to refrain from throwing around the word "epic" too much but the build up from the small tease into the full on Drummer Boy jam was indeed, epic.
Score: 0
Carini, DWD, tweezer, and most certainly wolfmans.
Score: 0
Not sure what shows you guys were at but I think the Worcester carini shits on MSG carini. Tweezer takes the cake no question. I mean come on the blissful jamming right away leading and building to maybe the best tweezer peak of 3.0. Carini is different and really dark, cool for sure. Dwd is a good jam but there are many better. But this tweezer is groundbreaking!
Score: 0
No mention of Ghost or Piper from NYE? Both were gorgeous.
Score: 2
id say id have to go with the dwd followed closely by the tweezer, i never understood why the dicks sand isant brought up more in these best jams of 3.0, i get the love for 9/1/12 light but imo the sand is better, the moment wen they stop and page keeps that affect looping was one of the most blissful experiences ive had at phish, goosbumps all over
Score: 1
@beanholestatus said: id say id have to go with the dwd followed closely by the tweezer, i never understood why the dicks sand isant brought up more in these best jams of 3.0, i get the love for 9/1/12 light but imo the sand is better, the moment wen they stop and page keeps that affect looping was one of the most blissful experiences ive had at phish, goosbumps all overI can 100% agree with you on that. Definitally felt thoes goosebumps myself.
Score: 0
Score: 0
I have to go with Carini too. The dwd> 20> Carini was 40 minutes of bliss. For me the mindblowing jams Do just that, I get lost in them and lose track of time and space and literally awaken from them!! yeah I know you are thinking "old deadhead", but so what, I love PHish and that Carini jam was simply great 4.95/5, an out of body experience.!!!
Score: 0
I think Piper had the best "holy shit!" moment of the weekend. I don't have the recording on me for exact timing...but that part close to the end where it just builds up out of nowhere and the whole band just starts absolutely raging. Gives me chills
Score: 2
@spasticdeadeyehound said: .
I think Piper had the best "holy shit!" moment of the weekend. I don't have the recording on me for exact timing...but that part close to the end where it just builds up out of nowhere and the whole band just starts absolutely raging. Gives me chillsYes! That was stellar. The glowstick cascade at the start was awesome too
.
Score: 0
i may of mentioned Carini in other threads but i hereby change my opinion to the Down With Disease. So Beautiful and has tons of variety
Score: 1
@spasticdeadeyehound said: I think Piper had the best "holy shit!" moment of the weekend. I don't have the recording on me for exact timing...but that part close to the end where it just builds up out of nowhere and the whole band just starts absolutely raging. Gives me chillsDefinitely an attention getter. I was listening to this show the other night while making dinner and was enjoying the comfortable groove of the Ghost> Piper jam, and the part you are talking about hit, and I had to stop what I was doing and just soak it in. Really stellar moment.
Score: 0
I though the Disease was the top. The last 1/3 is pure Hose imo.
I loved the Carini -- but the fuzz out at the end, right as a new awesome moment developed killed it a bit for me. (They last Grover was great, and the lick Trey drops in is my favorite of the run -- but why did he fuzz it out to BDTNL there, right as the Jam recoalesced?)
I thought the Tweezer wa s great -- but can some of you calling it "special" -- point to what aspects/time frames of that Jam went beyond pretty standard Phish 3.0 progressions and build-up Jams? I know it was more than most 3.0 Tweezers...but I felt the Jam style was pretty standard 3.0 fare,. just kept slightly longer than most.
With the Darker tone of DwD-TYL-Carini, am I the only one that was so sure we were getting No Quarter next...instead we got BDTNL (the cheery opening chords and "happy happy oh My Friend" as the next lyric after that Carini darkness seemed so bizarre to me.)
Page dropping the opening notes to No Quarter would have made MSG move from a collective deep funk trance to an all-out explosion.
I loved the Carini -- but the fuzz out at the end, right as a new awesome moment developed killed it a bit for me. (They last Grover was great, and the lick Trey drops in is my favorite of the run -- but why did he fuzz it out to BDTNL there, right as the Jam recoalesced?)
I thought the Tweezer wa s great -- but can some of you calling it "special" -- point to what aspects/time frames of that Jam went beyond pretty standard Phish 3.0 progressions and build-up Jams? I know it was more than most 3.0 Tweezers...but I felt the Jam style was pretty standard 3.0 fare,. just kept slightly longer than most.
With the Darker tone of DwD-TYL-Carini, am I the only one that was so sure we were getting No Quarter next...instead we got BDTNL (the cheery opening chords and "happy happy oh My Friend" as the next lyric after that Carini darkness seemed so bizarre to me.)
Page dropping the opening notes to No Quarter would have made MSG move from a collective deep funk trance to an all-out explosion.
Score: 0
Carini was fun but Tweezer was the jam of the run
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Just posted this on another board...--
I'll have to rank it as follows (relying mostly on memory from being there and a quick relisten since):
1. Carini
2. Tweezer
3. DWD
4. Wolfman's
5. Slave
And even though they're #1 and #2, to me, Carini was easily the best jam of the run. Tweezer was phenomenal, don't get me wrong. But it didn't break new ground like that Carini did. I wasn't really sure that 3.0 Phish had the capacity for that kind of mind-blowing, EVIL WITH A CAPITAL 666 jamming. That would have fit right at home in set three of the Halloween '98 show.
The Slave is possibly the most underrated jam of the tour. As good a rendition of Slave over the last fifteen years as I've heard.
Score: 0
1. dwd> twenty> carini2. ghost> piper
3. tweezer
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Yeah the more I listen to the Ghost> Piper the more I dig it. I'm still not sure it's on quite the same level as the DwD, Carini, and Tweezer but I'm also partial to the darker and spacier jams.Also the more I listen to that Wolfmans the more I love it, when the crown sings along with the little drummer boy tease it gets me every time. Maybe just because I was there but wow, what a special moment.
Score: 1
Tweezer, Wolfman's, and Ghost > Piper are my top 3. The Carini hasn't really stood out to me that much yet.
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Meanwhile.....back in Carini-land.....Around the 10 min mark they hit IT.
As for Ghost> Piper, like a decent portion of the run, it can be summed up by the following photo:
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carini was fantastic however tweezer takes the top for me due to the full band peak.
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maybe it was the L, but after that YEM I felt like I was the original Nintendo Entertainment System and somebody just pressed the reset button...never has my mind been so clear and pure
Score: 1
The Disease was great,(the last 2 minutes, holy fahk) but that Carini sent feelings/senses/emotions through my body that i didnt know existed. I seriously have never experienced anything like that at a show. it was absolutely mind/body numbing. I went on the 30th last year, so this year i was a little hesitant to pick that night again, but I could only go to one night of the run, and a bunch of my friends got 30ths in the lotto, so i went for it.....needless to say, we picked the right night.that Tweezer is bitchin' too though.
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