@The_Mollusk said:

@mfhgreyboy said:

Wow. Kind of surprised at the defense of the boss here.

I understand that he's in a difficult position, but I don't think it's too much to expect for him to abide by the law. Treating @ivy_light differently than her peers and/or retaliating (such as "freezing someone out" of their professional development) as a result of either (1) taking a federally protected leave of absence; or (2) an acknowledged medical condition that qualifies as a "disability" under the ADA is illegal.

@ivy_light - I still believe that your best course of action is laying low until you escape to Colorado - but not because you did anything wrong or because I feel sorry for the position of your boss. It's simply that you'd have to deal with this for months and months on a moving forward basis and I think moving cross-country would provide you with a clean break to just move forward. And I'm a bit worried about the influence this guy has on your next position. I would imagine the scientific community in your field is a pretty small pool and I wouldn't want this issue with him to turn into something wider.

Well, it's not necessarily defense of the boss. He is a boss. He expects consistent, high-level performance, like all bosses do. He doesn't need to understand anyone's mental health. If you can't perform your job at a high level, you piss your boss off. It's that simple. If she can't handle the pressure that comes with work, and find a way to channel some of this, then maybe it's time to go on disability. It's not like once she leaves this job, things are going to change. Every boss in every field has high expectations of their staff. I feel bad that she's going through this, but the reality of the situation is, her boss obviously thinks she's not performing at the level he knows she can.

It's a tough world'd.
Life's not always fair'd.

Which is why laws were created to deal with this exact situation. Which, according to what we've been provided in this thread, he is (at least potentially) violating.

@the_Crested_Hogchoker said:

@mfhgreyboy said:

Please don't do any of what @crested_hogchoker mentioned. All that will do is ruin any potential future claim you might have as it would provide them with actual reasons to treat you differently/manage you out/influence your position in Colorado.

That's a risk, but that's why you've got to play your cards very very close to your chest.

Dude, she's LEAVING this job in April. There is zero reason to get involved in a long-term military style coup over the lab by recruiting all her co-workers to sabotage her boss.

@mfhgreyboy said:

@the_Crested_Hogchoker said:

@mfhgreyboy said:

Please don't do any of what @crested_hogchoker mentioned. All that will do is ruin any potential future claim you might have as it would provide them with actual reasons to treat you differently/manage you out/influence your position in Colorado.

That's a risk, but that's why you've got to play your cards very very close to your chest.

Dude, she's LEAVING this job in April. There is zero reason to get involved in a long-term military style coup over the lab by recruiting all her co-workers to sabotage her boss.

Sorry, must have missed that part haha.... yeah definitely don't go all out with this shit I'm saying. But if you can leave with a referrence etc and still f*** the bastard over, its worth the extra effort imo.

@me_no_are_no_nice_guy said:

Is alcholoism a protected mental disorder?

Yes. According to the ADA.

@spaced - I get what you (and others) saying. It IS a difficult position for the boss. And yes, @ivy_light should consider the things many people have mentioned when evaluating her opinion of his actions. But understanding why he's acting in such a manner should not be extended to excusing it or asserting that @ivy_light's only recourse is to suck it up (even if, in the end, that's what my advice would be).

And I agree that litigation would do more harm than good here, but that's not my call. Just pointing out options.

@me_no_are_no_nice_guy said:

@mfhgreyboy said:

@me_no_are_no_nice_guy said:

Is alcholoism a protected mental disorder?

Yes. According to the ADA.

Awesome. I'm going to become an alcoholic and not have to answer for any of my bullshit. sounds great.

Bingo. We all have our "issues". We all need to deal with them without hiding behind them.

@mfhgreyboy said:

@spaced - I get what you (and others) saying. It IS a difficult position for the boss. And yes, @ivy_light should consider the things many people have mentioned when evaluating her opinion of his actions. But understanding why he's acting in such a manner should not be extended to excusing it or asserting that @ivy_light's only recourse is to suck it up (even if, in the end, that's what my advice would be).

And I agree that litigation would do more harm than good here, but that's not my call. Just pointing out options.

Ah, OK. I think we're basically in agreement. I wasn't saying that mending fences with the boss was her only option. Just making a recommendation. It's a tough situation and reasonable people can disagree about how to handle it.

@spaced said:

@mfhgreyboy said:

@spaced - I get what you (and others) saying. It IS a difficult position for the boss. And yes, @ivy_light should consider the things many people have mentioned when evaluating her opinion of his actions. But understanding why he's acting in such a manner should not be extended to excusing it or asserting that @ivy_light's only recourse is to suck it up (even if, in the end, that's what my advice would be).

And I agree that litigation would do more harm than good here, but that's not my call. Just pointing out options.

Ah, OK. I think we're basically in agreement. I wasn't saying that mending fences with the boss was her only option. Just making a recommendation. It's a tough situation and reasonable people can disagree about how to handle it.

Yup. Two paths to the same destination, my friend.

EDIT: nevermind.

@careful_w_that_axe_Miller said:

::posts in hostile thread environment::

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You made my day, miller.

And I'm sorry for taking this seriously. I actually care about this kind of stuff.

@the_Crested_Hogchoker said: [quoteNo homeboy, I was professionally trained in protocol at a military college. This is a basic power play. The point is to maximize your ability to defend yourself when your chain of command is failing in its obligation to you, through leaving yourself as many options as possible to reach a desirable outcome.

With some people, all they respect is power. When they have the advantage of a higher position and are treating you in a less than professional manner, one of the fastest ways to even the playing field is to disrupt their ability to exert power over you. This could be by digging up dirt that could threaten their career. You could do it by turning your staff's opinion against him. Or you can do it by disrupting the operation to the degree that it highlights just how much the people under him have control over certain aspects of the situation.

If you play cold enough, and wear a good enough mask, there are any number of moves you can create for yourself. Like I said, on the surface, play nice and be 100% professional, but if that doesn't pan out, if you've prepared properly, you will have manipulated as much of the situation as you possibly could have and you may end up with an opportunity to make a power play... that is, to exert the advantage that you have secretly created and have another shot at reaching your desired outcome.

The trade off is, that you have to be willing to be two faced, and you have to be willing to be mean. When you're dealing with a dick that doesn't recognize your hard work and professionalism, sometimes you have to wake him up by going on the offensive.

When your career is on the line, it pays to be cutthroat.[/quote]

Try getting a job with the 'plays cut throat, accumulates info to use against, and files lawsuits against former employers' tag around your next. Again, good luck with that. How do you deal with a jackass on a power trip? You defuse him by either playing his game or finding greener pastures. If he's that much of an ass then what are you doing there in the first place? Silly rabbit, power struggles are for kids...and if your hard work and professionalism are what you claim them to be, then finding another gig will not be a problem...unless you went black op's on your last boss and tried to sue his ass for doing what he thought was best for HIS company.

Do you not know the golden rule? Those with the gold...MAKE THE RULES. Deal with it.

Thanks, guys, for the useful debate. Here's some background. I don't know if it will help you understand my situation or not. And please don't bother reading it is you're only looking for ways to tear me apart or mock me for the long post:

I am a PhD. And I am smart. When we had our little "sit-down" after I returned from my absence, my boss told me dead-serious that I "was the most brilliant scientific mind he'd ever had as a member of his laboratory". He even wrote in my year-end review that I had the best "nose" for science he'd ever had in a trainee.

I wasn't always that way in his lab though. For the first 1.5 years I worked there, I was being treated with several high-powered mood stabilizers/antipsychotics (Lamictal, Seroquel, Abilify, Lithium, Strattera, Klonazepam...I can't even remember all of them) for the bipolar disorder. Sure, they evened me out. I was able to show up to work everyday and do what I needed to do (which at the time was extremely repetitive, brainless data collection). But my creative scientific spark was gone.

Those drugs - for lack of a better description - are chemical lobotomies. I lost the mental flexibility that made me a successful scientist in grad school allowing me to graduate from a top-notch (if not "THE" top-notch) school in the country with a publication that broke some ground in visual system development.

A little over a year ago, I developed a constellation of mysterious symptoms: flaky skin, nearly constant eye, sinus, and lung infections, my hair started to fall out, my joints ached. I ended up calling 911 one night because I couldn't breathe due to a chest infection and was subsequently hospitalized - not because of the bronchitis - but because my white blood cell count was so low, indicating that my immune system was almost non-existent.

Long-story short, one of the drugs that I had been on for over 4 years - Lamictal - caused a lupus-type reaction. Obviously, I could no longer take it.

After being weaned off (quickly!), the lupus disappeared and I noticed something else - I could think in ways I hadn't been able to since grad school. My mind was a flexible as I remembered it being in grad school. Moreover...I felt like ME again - the person I had come to define myself as. I told my shrink that I wanted to try to drop the other heavy-duty drugs too (Abilify, Seroquel, Strattera). My shrink warned me to potential relapse of symptoms and that I would have to weigh that against being "me" again. I decided it was worth a shot. And the year since has been an emotional rollercoaster but...well...I'm me. Spontaneous, outgoing, creative, able to see connections between pieces of information that few of my colleagues can. I'm a better scientist and - in general - more fun that I'm not a chemical zombie. I LOVE who I am now. I actually have friends now!

So yeah, it's my fault, if you want to look at it that way. I chose the possibility of dangerous mood-swings, crippling anxiety, etc. But would I have been "the most brilliant...mind" in my bosses' lab, would I have made all the wonderful friendships I have in the past year, etc, etc? Absolutely not. Is it worth it? Sometimes, no. But most of the time it's a resounding YES.

LONG POST, SHORT...

In my profession, there's a very, VERY thin line between brilliance and madness.

And usually, it's just accepted as something that comes with the territory. So perhaps that makes it an exception to other professions.

That, and my boss is not just my boss...he's my colleague. I guess I'm just saddened by the fact that he doesn't see me as such

Sorry for the long post.

Thanks for reading.

@ivy_light said:

In my profession, there's a very, VERY thin line between brilliance and madness.

Actually, I think that's probably true in most professions. Well, probably not accounting. But most professions.

@mfhgreyboy said:

@ivy_light - again, I'm very sorry to hear what you've been dealing with. I would strongly encourage you to research both intermittent FML and ADA accommodation requests.

Thanks, @mfhgreyboy. I will be speaking to HR as well as our ombudsman. My boss has told me that he's "generously" continuing my employment for the next four months. Supposedly, he "cares" about me and "wants to see me succeed" as I have a lot of "potential". I've been wondering if he was more or less forced into this because immediately shit-canning me might have legal repercussions as per ADA.

I will look into FML and ADA accommodations, for certain. I have about 60 or so hours of sick leave + vacation left so any future major episode is going to have to incorporate that. DC passed the "Accrued Sick and Safe Leave Act" (ASSLA) in 2008 whereby DC employers are required to provide paid leave for individuals with qualified illnesses (and under other circumstances). ASSLA leave accumulates the longer someone works for a DC company. ASSLA accounted for most of my leave and is also running low.

The other issue is that I supposedly have less than four months there. My funding runs out an the end of April regardless. I hope I can make it to then without another serious episode requiring time away from work.

::: posts in potentially epic thread :::

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8890734/chuck-klosterman-royce-white

Currently, the way I plan on dealing with this is as follows:

I am of the opinion that when he says he "no longer has the where-with-all" to mentor me that I've simply outgrown his expertise. I've been doing science professionally since I was 18. That's 26 years! And beyond that, I'm a natural at it. It's just my thing. My niche.

He's given me free-reign until April to do the experiments I've been dreaming of doing in his laboratory and continue my salary (which doesn't entirely come from his grants) until my Autism Speaks funding runs out at the end of April. Consequently, the stuff I'll be doing will generate data for a grant my CO boss is applying for.

Originally, I was supposed to spend the time setting up a new imaging technique which I alone (in the entire research center) have experience with. Because he has sworn off mentoring me, I'm no longer on that project. It's been passed on to one of my fellow postdocs (a friend of mine who I will be helping set it up regardless...just not getting the credit...BTW, isn't that stupid? Forbid the only person with experience in a technique to work on establishing it in your lab? To me that's egotistical to the max. But the postdoc he put on the project is my bud and I'll be happy to teach him the ropes).

I've got everything set up for my new, sexy experiments and they happen to be what I'm "known" for. Also, I don't design experiments that aren't important. I design them so that regardless of the result - negative, positive, whatever - useful information is learned (hence, why I don't publish is crap journals).

So...as several folks have mentioned in this thread, I plan on doing my job which I am really good at. Period. And if by some luck I generate some incredible data while "not" in his lab, he will have no claim to any credit aside from providing the space, etc. in which the experiments were performed. Since he has - in writing - declared that he is no longer my mentor, there are significant grounds to deny him authorship on any resulting publications. He merely providing the space and made no intellectual contribution. At most he would be a contributing author but not the principal investigator (BIG difference).

So...bottom line. I do my thing the next few months. MY thing. Not his. And that has a lot of potential advantages.

EDIT: @spaced: Johnny Carson was one of the most brilliant comedians ever, IMO. And my personal belief is that he had Asperger's Syndrome.

@spacecoyote: Thanks, my friend. And yes, I plan on making the most of this opportunity to do exactly the experiments I've always wanted to do. And because "we're all in this together", I'll freely provide my meager expertise to anybody sharing the same or similar goal I have: to make it so kids with autism - normally so stricken with anxiety - can blow out the candles on their birthday cakes at their own parties.

@ivy_light said:

Johnny Carson was one of the most brilliant comedians ever, IMO.

That's some opinion. You mentioned innovative further up as well. I mean, no doubt the guy was hugely popular and successful, but I don't know about innovative, or one of the most brilliant ever.

I have some pretty different views on work...The employer/employee relationship throughout the world is f***ed. There is a fundamental disconnection between the two and it is exacerbated by the fact that those who have potential to climb within an organization/company eventually gain the same kind of attitude toward those "beneath" them. I work in a kitchen, where I met one of the best people I have ever met. The first night it was busy and we were cleaning up, Phish came over the sound system... He's the chillest boss I have (out of five and he's the fourth or fifth powerful) and is constantly being berated (in private by the other three). recently he's been getting on my case, and I bit back. It wasn't good because I know they had to pull him aside to tell him I couldn't talk to him like that... just more shit. I contacted him apologizing and after he told me that he had been getting shit for making friends with the cooks for years. They told him it held him back. I will never forget that, like we couldn't be friends because it would f*** up the work?

f*** that. Something has to change in the way we work.

Ivy, I meant for this story to be an eye-opener to the brutality of the professional world. How much people are turned against one another in order to feel like they are doing or accomplishing more than you. Although some will try and say I have a problem with capitalism, I do not. I just don't subscribe to the notion that my boss is going to ride my ass and thats the way it goes.

As I said to my friend/boss... work can be beautiful.

@julesmac said:

@ivy_light said:

So...bottom line. I do my thing the next few months. MY thing. Not his.

ivy, oh ivy (sung to the tune of dylan's isis)...you go, girl -- you f*cking rock!!!

/colorado's gain!!!

Awwww...thanks. I hope so. You guys rock too! Don't know what I'd do without you all in my life to keep things in perspective and prevent me from freaking out all the time

<3