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Score: 7
hahahahaha!my favorite part is "If you want me to take anything you have to say about music seriously, then first and foremost take a f***ing class in logic".
So illogical....I mean they are Phish!!!!! Come on!!!!
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::mature'd::
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Awesome.
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You know, it's funny because I am a hipster. I trash on simplistic music all the time because I have high standards for what I listen to. I've been studying music theory since elementary school, and I can pretty much guarantee I am more of a music critic than this author, and I can find things about Phish that, objectively speaking, push the boundaries of compositional innovation. This isn't subjective, these are the facts from a music snob. This isn't to say everything Phish touches is gold-I have plenty of criticisms of the band. You can't deny the innovation they bring to the table though.
And LOL at anything that thinks lyrics count for shit. Instrumentation is really the only thing that matters.
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Now i can send this link to anyone who wants to bitch at me about phish.Glad someone did it.
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@LedZeppelin said: You know, it's funny because I am a hipster. I trash on simplistic music all the time because I have high standards for what I listen to. I've been studying music theory since elementary school, and I can pretty much guarantee I am more of a music critic than this author, and I can find things about Phish that, objectively speaking, push the boundaries of compositional innovation.Hey man, why can't more hipsters be like you? I think this was the first competent, non-smug, intelligent bunch of words I've ever seen come out of a hipsters mouth.
This isn't subjective, these are the facts from a music snob. This isn't to say everything Phish touches is gold-I have plenty of criticisms of the band. You can't deny the innovation they bring to the table though.
And LOL at anything that thinks lyrics count for shit. Instrumentation is really the only thing that matters.
Are you sure you are a hipster? Why do you talk like people are equal to you, no below you??? I'm sure, rule 1 in the Hipster Manual states that you are better than everyone and must make it known that the rest of society is under you.
Jokes of course man, very well put.
Score: 2
@GhostBuster said: @LedZeppelin said:Are vocals nothing but another instrument in a bands rig?Instrumentation is really the only thing that matters.Yes.
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@fanman900 said: @GhostBuster said:YES!@LedZeppelin said:Are vocals nothing but another instrument in a bands rig?Instrumentation is really the only thing that matters.Yes.
The human voice is just as much of an instrument as a guitar or a bass. Phish can use their voice in very interesting ways at times; I like to cite the harmonies in Mango Song, Weigh, Light, the list goes on...
These days, the boys can't really pull off the harmonies live anymore, but their studio work is a permanent testament to how they utilize this instrument that many have trouble recognizing as an instrument.
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@LedZeppelin said: I can find things about Phish that, objectively speaking, push the boundaries of compositional innovation....You can't deny the innovation they bring to the table....This is an undeniable fact that even the most acclaimed critics of Phish seem to either studiously ignore, or fail to comprehend in the first place.
Instrumentation is really the only thing that matters.This is the Achilles heel of The Brilliance Of Phish's Musicianship: their vocals. The voice is an implement of instrumentation. And Phish has weak vocals. I happen to like them very much, but I would be lying if I said they had "great voices."
Their strength lies not in multiple octave ranges or silky delivery, but what they can make of the voices God gave them, and that has turned out quite respectable indeed.
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@LedZeppelin said: And LOL at anything that thinks lyrics count for shit.Bob Dylan.
Just to name a one.
Score: 4
Stephen replied, "... I avoided Phish because I knew I would be disappointed."Well Stephen, I guess you think that you're not charge of how you feel during every waking moment?
Score: 1
@cjfphan21 said: @LedZeppelin said:Let's face it; Bob Dylan never really did anything innovative. He's a great poet, and that's about it.And LOL at anything that thinks lyrics count for shit.Bob Dylan.
Just to name a one.
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@deBebbler said: The voice is an implement of instrumentation.The voice is, no doubt.
Lyrics aren't.
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@LedZeppelin said: @cjfphan21 said:Let's face it; music isn't just about innovation. It's a great aspect, and that's about it.@LedZeppelin said:Let's face it; Bob Dylan never really did anything innovative. He's a great poet, and that's about it.And LOL at anything that thinks lyrics count for shit.Bob Dylan.
Just to name a one.
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The fact that Phish's lyrics didn't have any real "meaning" for the most part just solidifies the fact that they spoke through their music. They are improvisational musicians meaning they let their instruments speak for them. A lot of people think that if music has to have any sort of meaning, the lyrics have to be about something meaningful and in depth. Those people are really missing out on what music really is. Phish says a lot but you have to understand their language before you can hear it.
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I don't get why so many peopke knock on phishs lyrics. Some select songs are weird, sure, but most of the lyrics to me are genius
Score: 4
That original article doesn't deserve a "mature" response, or any attention at all, for that matter.
Score: 6
@cjfphan21 said: @LedZeppelin said:Why bother releasing music if it doesn't do anything that hasn't already been done before? What's the value in that? If you're lyrics are really good, why not just release your lyrics as poetry?@cjfphan21 said:Let's face it; music isn't just about innovation. It's a great aspect, and that's about it.@LedZeppelin said:Let's face it; Bob Dylan never really did anything innovative. He's a great poet, and that's about it.And LOL at anything that thinks lyrics count for shit.Bob Dylan.
Just to name a one.
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because not all music is made so that people can "buy it" because of its groundbreaking territory man.
the urge of an artist to express and create trumps the perils of potentially using similar chords/sounds/lyrics to something that has been written before
the point of doing it is because you want to, not to prove how clever/groundbreaking you can be.
if you happen to have new creative ideas than awesome people will applaud and respect that more often than not but just because someone has written a song about a break up played by one guy with a guitar doesn't mean you can't... that shit aint patented
the urge of an artist to express and create trumps the perils of potentially using similar chords/sounds/lyrics to something that has been written before
the point of doing it is because you want to, not to prove how clever/groundbreaking you can be.
if you happen to have new creative ideas than awesome people will applaud and respect that more often than not but just because someone has written a song about a break up played by one guy with a guitar doesn't mean you can't... that shit aint patented
Score: 3
There's a difference between saying "you can do this" vs "whether or not this has much merit." Strictly for our Bob Dylan example, he never made anything that had much musical merit.
Did he write lyrics that have poetic merit? Absolutely. However, poetry and music are two different things, and music and lyrics are different things too.
You can incorporate one into the other, but good lyrics doesn't make unoriginal music any better.
Score: 0
@LedZeppelin said: There's a difference between saying "you can do this" vs "whether or not this has much merit."How about you stop trying to impose your expectations into music? You're don't sound any different talking about Bob Dylan than Ben Shapiro talking about Phish.
Strictly for our Bob Dylan example, he never made anything that had much musical merit.
Did he write lyrics that have poetic merit? Absolutely. However, poetry and music are two different things, and music and lyrics are different things too.
You can incorporate one into the other, but good lyrics doesn't make unoriginal music any better.
Music isn't a competition.
Score: 1
great article.I was waiting for this......
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Also - Bob Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone" was hugely innovative, both for his leaving behind traditional folk culture and for the fact that a 6-minute single was unheard of before it's time.
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@patper said: @LedZeppelin said:How about you stop being so sensitive about analyzing compositional merit? My expectations have nothing to do with it, this is a matter of objection.There's a difference between saying "you can do this" vs "whether or not this has much merit."How about you stop trying to impose your expectations into music? You're don't sound any different talking about Bob Dylan than Ben Shapiro talking about Phish.
Strictly for our Bob Dylan example, he never made anything that had much musical merit.
Did he write lyrics that have poetic merit? Absolutely. However, poetry and music are two different things, and music and lyrics are different things too.
You can incorporate one into the other, but good lyrics doesn't make unoriginal music any better.
Music isn't a competition.
Score: 0
@johnnyd said: That original article doesn't deserve a "mature" response, or any attention at all, for that matter.Bam, agreed 100%.
I don't look at this response as "mature", no response is "mature" in this case. Some things just have to be let go of, this is one. Now we have glide and this idiot posting articles because they have the proper medium to do so...Still doesn't make it a good article.
I'm very surprised Glide let them post it. It's like who has the bigger medium, most users, and the worst part to me, imposing any type of opinion on someone else based around music.
Score: 3
I mean the whole article basically tells you how to look at music. Not that I disagree but he's being just as imposing, and clearly wrote and article directed towards a specific person, which makes it even odder.
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@LedZeppelin, your first post in this thread was excellent. IMHO, you are way off base stating that Bob Dylan "never made anything that had much musical merit", or "innovative". He was a folk artist through and through. In 1965 he went electric at the Newport Folk Festival, something that had never been done and was never expected. Had he not combined folk with rock and roll, the musical landscape of the following few years would have been very different, and therefore the music of today would be very different, as one could argue that those where the most important years in the history of modern music. Going strictly by "musical merit", you have to look at when he came on the folk scene. At that time he brought a purely raw style that hadn't been seen within those circles. Much like what the grunge movement did in the '90s. Yes, his voice was his most powerful instrument, and he didn't have a classically great one, but saying what he did with it wasn't innovative....? See Desolation Row or Visions of Johanna. Your handle suggests you're a big fan of a band with one of the great voices in Rock and Roll history, without that voice, without the lyrics it put together, would they have been as musically powerful, as innovative? I think not.
As for the response to the Vise article, I'm in the camp that zero response in the correct response. It only causes more hits for the original "article", probably making that guy think he "really did something". And the Glide response seriously lacked substance.
Score: 2
@LedZeppelin said: "@cjfphan21 said: "@LedZeppelin said: "@cjfphan21 said: "@LedZeppelin said: "And LOL at anything that thinks lyrics count for shit."
Bob Dylan.
Just to name a one."
Let's face it; Bob Dylan never really did anything innovative. He's a great poet, and that's about it."
Let's face it; music isn't just about innovation. It's a great aspect, and that's about it."
Why bother releasing music if it doesn't do anything that hasn't already been done before? What's the value in that? If you're lyrics are really good, why not just release your lyrics as poetry?"
All the single ladies, all the single ladies All the single ladies, all the single ladies All the single ladies, all the single ladies All the single ladies
Now put your hands up Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
'Cause if you liked it, then you should have put a ring on it If you liked it, then you shoulda put a ring on it Don't be mad once you see that he want it If you liked it, then you shoulda put a ring on it Oh, oh, oh
If you liked it, then you should have put a ring on it If you liked it, then you shoulda put a ring on it Don't be mad once you see that he want it If you liked it, then you shoulda put a ring on it Oh, oh, oh
Read more: BEYONCE KNOWLES - SINGLE LADIES LYRICS
Bob Dylan.
Just to name a one."
Let's face it; Bob Dylan never really did anything innovative. He's a great poet, and that's about it."
Let's face it; music isn't just about innovation. It's a great aspect, and that's about it."
Why bother releasing music if it doesn't do anything that hasn't already been done before? What's the value in that? If you're lyrics are really good, why not just release your lyrics as poetry?"
All the single ladies, all the single ladies All the single ladies, all the single ladies All the single ladies, all the single ladies All the single ladies
Now put your hands up Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
'Cause if you liked it, then you should have put a ring on it If you liked it, then you shoulda put a ring on it Don't be mad once you see that he want it If you liked it, then you shoulda put a ring on it Oh, oh, oh
If you liked it, then you should have put a ring on it If you liked it, then you shoulda put a ring on it Don't be mad once you see that he want it If you liked it, then you shoulda put a ring on it Oh, oh, oh
Read more: BEYONCE KNOWLES - SINGLE LADIES LYRICS
Score: 0
PT has so many great comedians.
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