Sometimes it seems like when we discuss the best moments of Phish, it's only the jams we talk about. When we talk about the greatest moments of certain years or tours, only long improvisational segments are mentioned. Why does no one ever talk about great setlists or segments or particularly well played versions of otherwise standard songs? It starts to seem like it demeans Phish as a band.

nah we talk about songs, jams are the meat n potatoes tho

No, it's all about the jams brah.

Phish songs are great and all, but we all come back for the jams, don't even try to kid yourself.

If I weren't too obsessed with jams, I'd probably have a different favorite band.

@Penn42 said:

Phish songs are great and all, but we all come back for the jams, don't even try to kid yourself.

Not me. Jams are part of it, sure, but I love Phish songs as much as their improv. I come back for the whole package.

I was thinking about this the other day when I was reading through some phans' take on the recent YEMSG shows. I was not there, but did watch all the webcasts and have listened to the shows via LivePhish many times. What utterly amazed me was that there were people out there saying these were simply "meh" shows based solely on the fact that there was no jamming in them. First of all, I have a hard time believing that there was "no jamming" in a run of Phish shows that features one of my favorite Tweezers (clocking in at over 20 minutes). What exactly is the standard here? Must they stretch every song out to 30+ minutes? Should they even bother playing songs? While the would be some novelty to them standing up on stage and just jamming for two full sets, I doubt that anyone actually wants that, but this is what some folks think they should be seeing.

I think back a lot to 1996 when Billy Breathes came out. I have brought this up before on .Net, so pardon me for repeating myself a bit, but when that album came out, so many people bitched and moaned about how it wasn't really jamming enough. For me, Billy Breathes was an amazing example of how Trey and the band was maturing in terms of their songwriting. I often called this album Phish's equivalent of The Beatles' Rubber Soul in terms of mood and in that they both represented a shift in style for both bands. Billy Breathes was simply more emotive and had elements of softness and melancholy that Phans were just not used to seeing. If you remember, Rift was a concept album that explored the dissolution of a relationship which is a subject that is pretty emotional. While I love this album, I would not say that the songwriting on it reflects the somber tones that the subject matter would imply. I don't fault Phish for this. Rather, I appreciate their quirky take on it, but there is a part of me that finds the emotional content lost behind the mathematical approach to composition. Billy Breathes was the first Phish album where the emotional content was woven into the quirk that I love about Phish. It was a huge step for them as artists and when it was released, there were plenty of people who hated it and that, IMHO, was extremely shortsighted.

My point in all this is that Phish do not just jam. They put a lot of time and effort into composing their songs. Improvisation is a huge part of their approach to composition, but it is, by far, not the only reason they exists as artists and as a phan, you are actually depriving yourself of something by not embracing this.

To some extent, I totally agree with the statement that this attitude of "the jam is all" is indeed demeaning to Phish as artists who are so very exceptional at all aspects of their craft. If we go to shows just to see them jam, it begins to start feeling like a sporting event more than a musical experience. I want to go on record as saying that I love the improvisational aspects of Phish. I love the jams and need them just as much as they probably do. Speaking as a musician, there is so much reward in playing improvisationally, but it is not the only part of the craft that you strive to perfect. There is so much gold to be mined from an appreciation of the SONGS, man. The f***ing SONGS are the key. Without them, improv is essentially masturbation. While that is certainly interesting on it's own, improv within a greater emotional context, like sex, is much more rewarding.

why does it matter? music tastes are subjective

@spaced said:

It doesn't demean Phish as a band at all. The problem with your argument is that it ignores how common it is to have great setlists and well-played versions of standard songs. That characterizes most shows. Nobody talks about really well-played versions of Heavy Things or Julius, because most versions of those songs ARE really well-played, and one good version is not all that distinguishable from another.

Jams, on the other hand, are (a) less common than great setlists, and (b) more memorable, since a good jam sounds utterly unique, pretty much by definition.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

i have never hidden the fact that i go to phish shows for the jams. if i want to hear a sharp, well played song, i'd just blast the sloth from nye '95.

Some of my favorite memories are getting down with 3-minute Axilla and 5-minute Sample in a Jar.

Some of my favorite memories are getting down with 15-minute Tweezer and 20-minute Rock &Roll.

@Slothberries said:

@MomaDan said:

Brah that mid second set Numberline was crazy. They just cut straight into from a decent Ghost jam, soloed for 30 seconds then crushed Joy right after. Energy was through the roof

Error: You have already modded this user recently.

db is a db

i've really been pissing you off lately ay?

@MomaDan said:

@Slothberries said:

@MomaDan said:

Brah that mid second set Numberline was crazy. They just cut straight into from a decent Ghost jam, soloed for 30 seconds then crushed Joy right after. Energy was through the roof

Error: You have already modded this user recently.

db is a db

i've really been pissing you off lately ay?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyl5DlrsU90

i wouldnt say 'pissing me off'....

@Slothberries said:

@MomaDan said:

@Slothberries said:

@MomaDan said: [quote]Brah that mid second set Numberline was crazy. They just cut straight into from a decent Ghost jam, soloed for 30 seconds then crushed Joy right after. Energy was through the roof

Error: You have already modded this user recently.

db is a db

i've really been pissing you off lately ay?

Not mad, butthurt.

I could care less about the jams. I'm all about the vocals except for those damn vocal jams - that's just gibberish.

@Abrahm said:

Because this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MzLuQXUeh0

Will always be better than this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHdfSSPGN34

Seriously though, this might be the dumbest question I have ever seen on .net

thanks for your input f***er, sorry you don't like phish for their songs.

@Abrahm said:

Demeaning though?

I can't get over that. People don't follow Phish around the country to hear Golgi played to perfection every night. If you wanna hear Stash with no deviation, listen to APON. If you want to hear the greatest band on earth spontaneously create some of the most compelling improvisational music ever listen to the 7/2/97 version

I just think a lot of people don't like Phish for Phish, they like them for their improvisation only. Dont get me wrong, I love that too, and I look forward to the jamming more than anything in 3.0, but only cause everything else is the same.

No.

@Cheesecake said:

No, it's all about the jams brah. http://i.qkme.me/3qadoh.jpg

If your going to take the Artwork, at least link the jams brah.

http://mindpilot.bandcamp.com/album/2013-02-01-zudek-springer-and-monetti