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"@dangeroso said:
"@XXXGAK_GAK_GAKXXX said:
"@dangeroso said:
"@Mountaindad said:
"@dangeroso said:
"@XXXGAK_GAK_GAKXXX said:
"Christianity has been one of the most violent and politically oppressive ideas in human history, and the American version of it is no exception. "
This is literally the dumbest thing I've read on this site, which is quite the accomplishment. [/quot
Dumbest? What does that even mean dude? Add to the discussion
"
Fair enough. I was exchanging an off the cuff statement for an off the cuff response.
There is nothing in the Christian charge, message, commandments, or ideology that promotes violence or political oppression. Absolutely nothing. Christ himself told his followers to do 2 things: love God, and love each other. (Matt 22:37).
Not only did he teach not to be violent, but he taught not to even be angry with others. (Matt 5:21).
More indirectly, Christ taught to keep faith and politics separate. (Mark 12:14-17). Paul was more explicit on this point (Romans 13:1-2).
So your point, as I see it, is that many people have perverted this message for their own purposes and the message (not the people) is to blame? If that's the case, how do you feel about people who claim Islam promotes terrorism? Many modern liberal ideologies are present in communism. Are you ok with the generalization that liberal ideals kill people?
Of course those statements are ridiculous, largely because the base message doesn't contain the evil intent. To claim that Christianity creates violence and oppression is both baseless and a huge over generalization. If you have issues with politicians or any people doing evil things in the name of Christianity, call out the people. And feel free to start with Trump, because he does not exhibit adherence to Christian teachings at all.
"
The point I was getting at, is that Christianity, throughout history, is both a religion and a political system, and the failure of scripture to provide a humane basis for its political system has resulted in a literally incalculable amount of human suffering.
On the bases of half-cocked religious concepts like sin, and gaining entry to an exclusive afterlife, highly oppressive regimes have been able to exploit scripture to the full spectrum of political abuse. Christian theology, and the lack of clarity in the bible have resulted in a blank check for power structures, even before Charlemagne converted. The fault may not lie in the literal text of the bible (and it certainly does, from Leviticus through Paul's epistles, providing ammo for everything from war to sexism to homophobia), but the violent and totalitarian results of Christian rule are undeniable. The bible, through its failure to clearly convey the political implications of its teachings, has caused global damage to humanity that dates back more than 1000 years and still has a severe effect on the world today. It's unacceptable to excuse the amount of violence perpetuated by Christians by claiming that it was just people being people, who didn't follow the word of the bible. It's a result of scripture being primitive, archaic and insufficient to to control the indoctrination that it created. The risk is, even with peaceful Christians, that we keep perpetuating these teachings, that have political implications, which utterly failed humanity centuries ago and continue to fail in locations around the globe, resulting in incredible suffering. The issue isn't getting people to properly mold the bible to modern times, but to get people to recognize that it provides a very poor basis for understanding and guiding human life to begin with, despite its many good intentions. " "
I disagree with the assessment that Christianity is incomplete or unclear on those points. I also disagree that a poor basis for basing human life upon.
I do agree that most people who are responsible for the issues you are referencing have either not bothered to learn, understand or adhere to the teachings however, and that is 100% the issue.
"
If this bullshit was the "word of god," or even a coherent philosophy of peace and understanding, it would not be able to be exploited for a major portion the most evil acts in history.
It's both hilarious and sad that someone could shrug off a dozen or more centuries of horror, caused by christians on every continent, by saying that simply weren't following the bible. And Christians wonder why there is so much contempt for them...
(I'm an ex-christian btw, Catholic until I was 19, was a member of Episcopalian, Lutheran and non-denominational congregations in my early-mid 20s. I'm not just looking for a group to rail on.)"
Either you can point to a specific point of doctrine that makes your point (about endorsement of violence and political obstruction), or you accept that these people doing these things are doing it for their own other motivations. There's really not a 3rd option. Other than stubbornly refusing to address the point.