@n00b100 said:
" "I don't think the band cares AT ALL what the audience wants to hear. Either that or Trey is certifiably delusional about our desire to hear misplaced Farmhouses in the second set. "

As he has been since 1998. At least it was more novel then, I guess?

"Here's a thought: It's their 40th year doing this. Some of these new songs are absolute GARBAGE, but I have to support them playing them once in a while because otherwise it does very much become a 90's nostalgia fest and I can't think of anything more depressing than that. "

Agreed.

"But they have been doing this for 40 years and after that much time it's got to be very, very difficult for them or us to get as excited about it as we once did. No matter where they play or what they play. "

Agreed, again.

"This may be the wrong thread, but this board is full of threads about how this has been the best tour in years, they're playing at a super high level, etc. That's bonkers to me. They don't sound great to my ears. They sound really uninspired and that's when I can hear Mike at all. They sound gassed. And that's okay. It's been 40 years. "

Woof. You know, I am reminded of a thread in which you mentioned a number of complaints you had building up about a tour that you wanted to keep some sort of national secret like this forum isn't full of people complaining about the band all the live-long day (eg this thread), and I took a guess at what they were, and most of them were accurate and very similar to what you're saying here (flubs, uninspired, tired, terminal decline, etc). You remember what tour that was? I'm sure you do - it was Summer 2021. I guess my point is if you keep saying the same thing, at some point your opinion (which, of course, this is) might well be the majority opinion. I don't know that it is, yet. Maybe it is. Maybe it's not.

"At this point Phish has the ultimate level of control. They can play whenever, wherever, whatever they want and they know that their fans will come and most of them will enjoy it and the rest will complain about it to their heart's content on the internet. So whatever they do, I'm assuming it's what they WANT to do because there is no other feasible explanation.
Everything has an end. At least they get to write it how they want to this time. "

And, to echo the spirit of the last time we had contretemps about the band and how f***ing utterly washed they are now - I hope you're still around for it. You keep sounding like you don't want to be, and yet here you still are."

I should start this reply off by saying, for the record, that I have no desire to convince anyone that what Phish is playing these days is crappy. I'm only here to rain on my own parade. Second, lest @n00b100 or anyone else think that all I do is bitch about my favorite band, here's a small smattering of things I've posted on this board over the past several years:
1. 7/16/16 was a top 10 show of all time (and, yes, congrats to noob for pulling up an immediate recollection of this one when I dared anyone to do so)
2. Fall tour 2018 was the best tour, pound for pound, of the modern era (still stand by that one, even if it was a small tour)
3. 12/29/18 was one of THE best shows of the modern era (something I brought up haphazardly again recently and got me scolded by folks whose opinion I very much value and by those I very much don't).
4. 6/21/19 was a top 10 all-time show (probably not, but the first set was certainly a ton of fun, and the Jim was an all-timer).
5. I thought three of the first four shows of 4.0 were really enjoyable.
6. 4/21/22 is about as good of a show as you're going to see these days (yes that's backhanded, but it was still very good).

SO it's not all doom and gloom over here. The band is clearly rehearsing songs before they play them (I truly can't think of a run of more well-executed Fluffheads since...forever). If that means sacrificing spontaneity in setlist construction on the fly, I'm completely fine with that. They seem to be having fun. Lots of people are really excited about how they are playing. So what's my damage? My damage is simple: Phish's concerts are really rote at this point. They have about three jamming styles they employ and they use them on virtually every jam. You've heard me say this before. Filthy bangers like Carini immediately modulate and then tread the exact same sonic waters for 15 minutes. Occasionally there's a peak that comprises Trey mashing on delay pedals until page has built sufficient enough of a swell to bring the whole thing to a "peak." It's a lot like listening to a porn star fake an orgasm. And that happens several times per show, pretty much every show. It also seems that fans can count on, literally more often than not, some song being taken for 20 minutes. Okay cool, but does every or most every tweezer/carini/disease/simple have to get that treatment? Moments of predictability are interspersed with moments like the MFMF from alpharetta and by comparison its uniqueness makes it glisten like a rare gem. Go back and listen to the recent spartanburg 10/29/94 release, where almost every song drips with some unexpected turn or embellishment. It's magic. That's what I want my phish to sound like.
And I'm going to stop right there to make something abundantly clear: I don't want it to be 1994. I don't want phish to play like it was 1994. truthfully there are plenty of 3.0 years I prefer to that one in particular (hoods excepted). i personally sure as hell dont want to be 16 again. What I *do* what, and what is relevant here, is for them to sound like they care when they play. Much of the time it sounds as if they are going through the motions, will snap out of it for a jam or two, and then go back to auto pilot.
The more interesting question, which n00b gets down to pretty quickly, is, "well if you do feel that way, why are you still here?" GOsh, that's a good question. I think it's because I'm lamenting the loss of something I love and I just haven't gotten over it yet and for some reason I feel as though screaming into the void of the internet to a bunch of people I've never met in real life but share the same love for this thing that I do will help make it better or more understandable? In some way I want to truly, like, understand how people could be this in love with what's going on.
there is no ego here. i just don't get it. i think i need to stop making it other people's problem and deal with my feelings. it's hard to give up. this is the first year since i was 17 years old that I haven't seen a phish concert. that is a long f***ing run. i'm not dying for things to be the way they used to be; i get the futility of wanting things to be any different than the way they are. it is what it is. i'm just sad.